Income tax increases to maintain public sector pay increases

patslatt

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With the EU Commission forcing the government to spell out the details of its 2011-2014 budget plans,the public sector unions and professions will be alerted to mount sustained campaigns to avoid pay cuts,pension contribution increases (even if called for by pension actuaries) and significant redundancies in the four years of austerity. As a result,a desperate government will probably increase tax rates drastically on incomes and introduce rates on houses. It will do so even though the frenzy of tax increases in Lenihan's past three budgets have killed consumption, contributing materially to the economic depression. Ireland is facing a double dip depression and a lost decade like Japan's.

My post on this subject in March 2008 largely proved out http://www.politics.ie/920732-post1.html
 
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Halo

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With the EU Commission forcing the government to spell out the details of its 2011-2014 budget plans,the public sector unions and professions will be alerted to mount sustained campaigns to avoid pay cuts,pension increases (even if called for by pension actuaries) and significant redundancies in the four years of austerity. As a result,a desperate government will probably increase tax rates drastically on incomes and introduce rates on houses. It will do so even though the frenzy of tax increases in Lenihan's past three budgets have killed consumption, contributing materially to the economic depression. Ireland is facing a lost decade like Japan's.

My post on this subject in March 2008 largely proved out http://www.politics.ie/920732-post1.html
croke park deal anyone
 

TODevastated

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With the EU Commission forcing the government to spell out the details of its 2011-2014 budget plans,the public sector unions and professions will be alerted to mount sustained campaigns to avoid pay cuts,pension increases (even if called for by pension actuaries) and significant redundancies in the four years of austerity. As a result,a desperate government will probably increase tax rates drastically on incomes and introduce rates on houses. It will do so even though the frenzy of tax increases in Lenihan's past three budgets have killed consumption, contributing materially to the economic depression. Ireland is facing a lost decade like Japan's.

My post on this subject in March 2008 largely proved out http://www.politics.ie/920732-post1.html
more money will be needed to cover pensions, the liabilities for which, I understand may make NAMA look like a tea party

could be up to 3% on the top rate

Croke Park deal in the bin!!
 

Broke

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Public Sector

The Public Sector Pensions should be cut first.They will cost more than Nama in the long run.Judges pay should be cut.All Public sector workers earning over 50,000 should face a pay cut.But this will not happen because the goverment is afraid of the unions.
With the EU Commission forcing the government to spell out the details of its 2011-2014 budget plans,the public sector unions and professions will be alerted to mount sustained campaigns to avoid pay cuts,pension increases (even if called for by pension actuaries) and significant redundancies in the four years of austerity. As a result,a desperate government will probably increase tax rates drastically on incomes and introduce rates on houses. It will do so even though the frenzy of tax increases in Lenihan's past three budgets have killed consumption, contributing materially to the economic depression. Ireland is facing a lost decade like Japan's.

My post on this subject in March 2008 largely proved out http://www.politics.ie/920732-post1.html
 

charley

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There'll be redundancies in the PS in the new year, they will probably mostly among the lower paid . The Croke park deal was never going to be a runner and the beards knew this.
 

shannonBlueShirt

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There'll be redundancies in the PS in the new year, they will probably mostly among the lower paid . The Croke park deal was never going to be a runner and the beards knew this.
So they will cut the workers and keep the managers :confused:
 

TODevastated

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There'll be redundancies in the PS in the new year, they will probably mostly among the lower paid . The Croke park deal was never going to be a runner and the beards knew this.
was surprised last night to hear Rabitte on VB show indicating that if he was minister for finance that the numbers in the PS would have to be looked at-he mentioned a voluntary redundancy scheme


he refused to be drawn however on futher paycuts in the PS
 

Alternate

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With the EU Commission forcing the government to spell out the details of its 2011-2014 budget plans,the public sector unions and professions will be alerted to mount sustained campaigns to avoid pay cuts,pension contribution increases (even if called for by pension actuaries) and significant redundancies in the four years of austerity. As a result,a desperate government will probably increase tax rates drastically on incomes and introduce rates on houses. It will do so even though the frenzy of tax increases in Lenihan's past three budgets have killed consumption, contributing materially to the economic depression. Ireland is facing a lost decade like Japan's.

My post on this subject in March 2008 largely proved out http://www.politics.ie/920732-post1.html
I'm having difficulty trying to square your logic, Public Sector wage levels are going to be cut, the Croke Park Agreement has a clause which allows cuts under the type of economic conditions that exist at present.

Increased taxes are inevitable, Public sector wage cuts are inevitable, one will not prevent the other.
 

Dreaded_Estate

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Increased taxes are inevitable, Public sector wage cuts are inevitable, one will not prevent the other.
+1

The number of people who still think it is a either or choice is unbelievable.
We are going to need massive tax increases and massive spending cuts and some very healthy growth to just to get out of this mess.
 

Alternate

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So they will cut the workers and keep the managers :confused:
Thats the danger, it will be done to protect skill levels and maintain "valuable" experience. Not in themselves invalid arguments but with the age profile of the Public Sector as high as it is it will only put that eventuality on the long finger. Add to that the fact that most of the entrenched, lead swingers are in the older age brackets its easy to see that such a cull would rip out the younger more flexible and dynamic employees to the detriment of services in the not too distant future.
 

gatsbygirl20

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It is not an either / Or situation. Any tax increases will be borne heavily by the PS, as they always were. PS workers have few scams or loopholes in the area of tax. These tax increases will be on top of the 20% cut in wages many of them took in the last "very fair" budget which only targeted the PS and SW. "A very fair budget" was the catch cry everywhere---especially among those who themselves had not been hit. Although how a budget with such a narrow focus could be called "fair" escapes me.

Anyway, eaten bread is soon forgotten, as they say. The 20% pay cut is written out of the script. And now it's back to the old "The PS cannot be protected from the recession. They must start to make a contribution...." Wait until the budget imposes cuts on other sections of society. They will be less philosophical, or inclined to refer to them as "very fair cuts. Had to be done" which was the typical comment here vis-a-vis the PS wage cuts

If there is a large tax hike I await the philosophical "Had to be done. Deal with it" response.....
 

firefly123

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So pat at last we see your true colours. Just afraid you might have to pay along with rest of us. Time for you to do your patriotic duty pat and pay more tax. After all we are all in this together right
 

LongShanks

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Yet another FF driven anti-Public Sector thread to divert attention away from last nights treason. Just in time for the budget. "Oh look there's a PS worker with his "bloated" pay/conditions/pension -insert relevant word". He's to blame for the mess we're in, we can't afford him at his current salary/hours/pension".

As gatsybygirl said I await the philosophical "Had to be done. Deal with it".
 

Clanrickard

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There'll be redundancies in the PS in the new year, they will probably mostly among the lower paid . The Croke park deal was never going to be a runner and the beards knew this.
No there won't. Cuts yes redundancies no.
 

Clanrickard

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These tax increases will be on top of the 20% cut in wages many of them took in the last "very fair" budget which only targeted the PS and SW. ..
Rubbish. No one took a 20% cut. Furthermore SW took a minimal hit.
 

Franzoni

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I'm not a PS but i depend on all sectors of the ecomomy having money diposable income in their pockets as do all small and middle sized businesses

Slash and burn policies advocated by McCarty will not work..it will drive the ecomomy into a downward spiral with little growth and it will take 20 years to get going again like in Japan....

1980's solutions for a 21st century problem isn't the answer...
 

greengreen

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In fairness to public sector they have had 2 hits pension levy and pay cuts. Doctors, dentists, high end managers etc. have not paid a penny more to help the bail out.
 
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Question is IF PS redundancies on what terms should they be?

I believe it should be Statutory and nothing more.

Afterall if the PS employees were benchmarked as being equivalent to roles in the Private sector then they should have no problems moving into Private sector.
 


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