• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please contact us.

Independents4change

lostexpectation

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
13,967
Website
dublinstreams.blogspot.com
in How Ireland Voted 2016 there is mistake in
https://www.palgrave.com/de/book/9783319408880#aboutBook


Chapter 4. Campaign Strategies: How the Campaign Was Won and Lost Pat Leahy


subsection 4


4. Independent Independents Independent TDs and candidates remain an unusual and immensely significant part of Irish politics (see Chapter 9). They varied from typical local independent candidates, focussed almost exclusively on the needs of the constituency, to maverick independents like Mick Wallace in Wexford who devoted their time to national issues. It was Wallace’s proud boast that he did not attend funerals in his constituency, though it could hardly be said that this was typical amongst his independent colleagues. Whatever their ideological background— if any was discernible— they all ran stressing their independence from parties. At a time of unprecedented alienation from the political system for many voters, to be an independent was a virtue in itself.


Mick Wallace was not an Independent and certainly not and "Independent Independent" as he was founding member of registered political party "Independents 4 Change", originally "Independents for Equality Movement"


He ran for that party in 2016 as seen on the Notice of Poll Home
NOTICE OF POLL

CONSTITUENCY OF WEXFORD

Take Notice that, pursuant to a writ issued to me by the Clerk of Dáil Éireann, I will take a poll on 26th February 2016, between the hours of 7a.m. and 10 p.m. to elect …5… member of the Dáil for this constituency.
The names and descriptions of the candidates standing nominated and of their proposers (if any), and the order in which they will appear on the ballot paper, are set out hereunder.
Description
NameAddressOccupationName of Political Party, if anyProposer, if any
Mick WallaceWellington Bridge,
Wexford
Public RepresentativeIndependents 4 Change







 


lostexpectation

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
13,967
Website
dublinstreams.blogspot.com
Party leader interview series: Independents 4 Change’s Catherine Connolly.

via RTÉ - This Week Podcast http://ift.tt/2jn3s9e she is still only a member of the Dail group rather then the party.

the interviewer seems to have problem with TDs being independent
 

lostexpectation

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
13,967
Website
dublinstreams.blogspot.com

lostexpectation

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
13,967
Website
dublinstreams.blogspot.com
PartyConstituencyCandidateConstituency Spending LimitEA/Candidate expenditure in constituencyNational Agent/Party expenditure on candidate in constituencyTotal Expenses incurred
Independents 4 Change
Dublin Bay North
Tommy Broughan
€45,200.00€10,741.74€0.00€10,741.74
Dublin Fingal
Barry Martin€45,200.00€8,749.99€0.00€8,749.99
Clare Daly€45,200.00€8,865.45€0.00€8,865.45
Dublin South Central
Joan Collins€37,650.00€13,075.17€0.00€13,075.17
Wexford
Mick Wallace€45,200.00€10,236.83€0.00€10,236.83
€51,669.18€0.00€51,669.18

http://www.sipo.gov.ie/en/Reports/Election-Reports/Dáil-General-Election-26-February-2016/Appendix-1-Tables.html
 

lostexpectation

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
13,967
Website
dublinstreams.blogspot.com
Mick Wallace [no manifesto but leaflets posters]

Clare Daly spent election manifesto €1,309.02

Tommy Broughan election address/manifesto €2,752

Joan Collins print election manifesto €2,620

Barry Martin election manifesto €1,309.02
 

lostexpectation

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
13,967
Website
dublinstreams.blogspot.com
Clare Daly is the designated whip for "Independents 4 Change" and thus gets an extra payment of €5,520
Salaries, Houses of the Oireachtas I4C does not whip votes but obviously co-ordination is needed with the governemnt, Oireachtas, via the business committee and for their private bills and motions etc, this money may be used to pay extra staff or for other resources for the party.
 
Last edited:

lostexpectation

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
13,967
Website
dublinstreams.blogspot.com
Lostexpectation appears to have taken it upon himself to promote the Inds4Change "brand", in order to ensure it is recognised as such by media.
Im not trying to promote it, if a TD is a member of party s/he should be declared as such, I don't like that Tommy Broughan ran for election without naming the party he was a member of, im trying to have a fact reported. Tommy Broughan keeps saying he is an Independent TD when he ran for the Independents4change a registered political party in the election, as far as I know he is still a member of the party (I've asked if he left it) but he keeps telling the media he is an Independent TD and most keep repeating this in articles that mention him. I want the media to report the party membership of Tommy Broughan and to get Tommy Broughan to declare his party membership rather then to claim he is Independent which everyone presumes means non-party.
 
Last edited:

lostexpectation

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
13,967
Website
dublinstreams.blogspot.com
In a story in the Mirror they mention Tommy Broughan, who says he is no longer an Independents4Change TD. https://www.thesun.ie/news/538871/85-irish-politicians-from-the-dail-and-the-seanad-are-entitled-to-extra-cash-through-salary-top-ups/ so I again emailed Tommy Broughan to ask what date he resigned from the Independents4chnge party. He replied this evening by avoiding answering the question I asked him, he said “I am an Independent TD who is in a Technical Group which includes members of the Independents 4 Change group for many months past.” so I replied ‘please can you tell me exactly what date did you resign from the Independents4change party?’ cos Im not sure he has.
 

lostexpectation

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
13,967
Website
dublinstreams.blogspot.com
Parliamentary Activity Allowance paid to Independents4Change Party from February 2016 to date is €241,659.22

PER webpage and this document on it that shows the 32nd Dail rates and this Dail PQ.


does that make sense?

February 2016 to date = 50 weeks?

Those documents say the total annual payment would be €257,472,

In weeks that would be €257,472/52 = €4951.38 PAA per week * 50 weeks = €247569.23.
* 49 weeks = €242617.62

How was €241,659.22 arrived at?

Parliamentary Activity Allowance
5. Claiming the allowance
5.1 The allowance is payable monthly in arrears for each week the person was, at any
time during that week, a member of the Dáil or Seanad.
http://www.sipo.gov.ie/en/guidelines/state-financing-guidelines/parliamentary-activities-allowance-guidelines/paa-guidelines-party-leaders-111.pdf
 
Last edited:

lostexpectation

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
13,967
Website
dublinstreams.blogspot.com
confirmation from the dept of PER
The Independents 4 Change Party had 4 members elected to the Dáil (no members in the Seanad). Therefore, the monthly amount due to the Party is €21,456 (i.e. €5,364 x 4). The figure of €241,659.22 stated in our previous reply is made up of €21,456 x 11 months (March 2016 – January 2017 inclusive) + an amount of €5,643.22 for part of February 2016 – the month in which the General Election was held.
Independents 4 Change Party atleast if not TB is getting money for it, while telling the media hes left I4C party.


and agan I asked him what date he left and again he replies but refuses to say a date.

this tells me Tommy Broughan is still a member of I4C party
 
Last edited:

jackryan

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
3,722
confirmation from the dept of PER afaic this email from the Dept of PER tells me Tommy Broughan is still a member of I4C party and I4C atleast if not TB is getting money for it, while telling the media hes left I4C party
Even if Broughan had left wouldn't the I4C still get the money?
 

Mushroom

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
15,474
Even if Broughan had left wouldn't the I4C still get the money?
Yep. It's based on the number of seats that a party or grouping had on the first sitting day of a new Dáil, and isn't adjusted for any change of TD's allegiance. Thus, when Juicy Lucinda left FG, she was disappointed to discover that she couldn't take her part of the FG honeypot with her.

And ditto Clare Daly (who couldn't take her SP allowance with her), Rosin Shortall, Colm Keaveney and the other Labourites who changed horses mid-stream in the last Dail.

I assume that Baldy Donnelly's allowance will remain with the Soc Dems rather than following him to FF, which is a handy windfall for Shortall and Murphy!
 
Last edited:

lostexpectation

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
13,967
Website
dublinstreams.blogspot.com
Even if Broughan had left wouldn't the I4C still get the money?

yes I said 'I4C atleast if not TB is getting money for it', when Tommy Broughan says what date he resigned from I4C that will suggest at what point he was no longer could be benefiting from being a member.
 
Last edited:

making waves

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
19,239
And ditto Clare Daly (Joe Higgins kept her allowance), Rosin Shortall, Colm Keaveney and the other Labourites who changed horses mid-stream in the last Dail.
Your allegation re-Joe Higgins is utterly false. When Clare Daly resigned from the Socialist Party she demanded that the Socialist Party hand her half of the allowance received by the Socialist Party - the Socialist Party refused, notified the CPP that the Socialist Party now had one representative in the Dail and returned the excess money that would have been received for a second representative. Clare Daly was originally elected on the promise of 'a workers TD on a workers wage' - while a member of the SP that rule was followed. What Clare Daly has done since I do not know - she hasn't made any statements relating to what salary she takes.

Similarly since the last election - the AAA-PBP has refused to accept the chief-whips allowance and any receipts due to membership of Dail committees. They are the only parliamentary grouping that refuses to accept the chief whips allowance and regards the work on Dail committees as part of their parliamentary work. Both AAA and PBP TDs operate on the basis of only accepting the AIW as salary and the remainder is used to fund party activities and wider workers and community campaigns. Again, AAA - PBP is the only parliamentary grouping to commit to this promise.
 

Mushroom

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
15,474
Your allegation re-Joe Higgins is utterly false. When Clare Daly resigned from the Socialist Party she demanded that the Socialist Party hand her half of the allowance received by the Socialist Party - the Socialist Party refused, notified the CPP that the Socialist Party now had one representative in the Dail and returned the excess money that would have been received for a second representative. Clare Daly was originally elected on the promise of 'a workers TD on a workers wage' - while a member of the SP that rule was followed. What Clare Daly has done since I do not know - she hasn't made any statements relating to what salary she takes.

Similarly since the last election - the AAA-PBP has refused to accept the chief-whips allowance and any receipts due to membership of Dail committees. They are the only parliamentary grouping that refuses to accept the chief whips allowance and regards the work on Dail committees as part of their parliamentary work. Both AAA and PBP TDs operate on the basis of only accepting the AIW as salary and the remainder is used to fund party activities and wider workers and community campaigns. Again, AAA - PBP is the only parliamentary grouping to commit to this promise.
Many thanks for the clarification. I've now amended my post so as to put the record straight.

What I knew was that Daly wasn't allowed to take the allowance as it was payable to the SP, not to her. The rest is good to hear although somewhat diluted by the realisation that Paul Murphy's free legal aid will probably cost the taxpayer a lot more!
 

making waves

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
19,239
The rest is good to hear although somewhat diluted by the realisation that Paul Murphy's free legal aid will probably cost the taxpayer a lot more!
Paul Murphy, along with several other Jobstown defendants, is being charged with false imprisonment - a charge that on conviction can lead to a costodial sentence of up to life imprisonment. The rest of the defendants are also being charged with serious charges. This is a political charge - a decision by the DPP and the political elites in this country to target a large group of working class activists engaged in legitimate protest.

The DPP took the decision to charge the defendants with such serious charges in the Circuit Court - rather than a lesser charge in the District Court. This decision to try the case in the Circuit Court significantly upped the ante in terms of cost - at a minimum the cost per defendant will be in excess of €100,000 and possibly up to €500,000 depending on the length of the trial and possible future appeals. This money is not recoverable and legal aid is normally (in the vast majority of cases) granted to defendants facing such serious charges.

If you want to point the finger at the cost to the state and the cost to the taxpayer then you should point the finger at the DPP and the political establishment for engaging in this unwarranted and vindictive campaign against the 23 Jobstown defendants - legal aid would not have been an issue if the case had been heard in the District Court. And given the political shenanigans now being exposed in relation to McCabe it is clear that all charges against the Jobstown defendants should be quashed - and the bogus guilty verdict against a teenager by the judge in the Childrens Court should be quashed.
 

Mushroom

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
15,474
Paul Murphy, along with several other Jobstown defendants, is being charged with false imprisonment - a charge that on conviction can lead to a costodial sentence of up to life imprisonment. The rest of the defendants are also being charged with serious charges. This is a political charge - a decision by the DPP and the political elites in this country to target a large group of working class activists engaged in legitimate protest.

The DPP took the decision to charge the defendants with such serious charges in the Circuit Court - rather than a lesser charge in the District Court. This decision to try the case in the Circuit Court significantly upped the ante in terms of cost - at a minimum the cost per defendant will be in excess of €100,000 and possibly up to €500,000 depending on the length of the trial and possible future appeals. This money is not recoverable and legal aid is normally (in the vast majority of cases) granted to defendants facing such serious charges.

If you want to point the finger at the cost to the state and the cost to the taxpayer then you should point the finger at the DPP and the political establishment for engaging in this unwarranted and vindictive campaign against the 23 Jobstown defendants - legal aid would not have been an issue if the case had been heard in the District Court. And given the political shenanigans now being exposed in relation to McCabe it is clear that all charges against the Jobstown defendants should be quashed - and the bogus guilty verdict against a teenager by the judge in the Childrens Court should be quashed.
All the sanctimonious blah blah blah in the world doesn't change the plain fact that gutless lawbreaker Paul Murphy is sponging off the taxpayer big time, thereby blowing a massive hole in any kudos due to Club Retard (aka the AAA-PFP clowns) for not claiming Dail allowances that other parties claim.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top