India has abolished Kashmir's autonomy and protections.

JacquesHughes

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
1,158
In a surprise parliamentary ambush on monday India's ruling party abolished the autonomy of Kashmir which had been respected for 72 years by successive Indian governments. A 'princely state' Jammu and Kashmir joined India at the new country's independence, in 1947 on condition of autonomy, and has contributed considerably to India's image as a tolerant multi-faith democracy. Such perceptions look naive now.
This contemptible action can only be condemned, and is unlikely to have happy consequences.
Among the protections lost was the condition that only residents of Kashmir can buy land and property there - with India's demographics this could be used by central government to effect major demographic change in the majority muslim state.
Credit to bloomberg for publishing a scathing Opinion piece
 


Catahualpa

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
525
Website
irelandinhistory.blogspot.com
In a surprise parliamentary ambush on monday India's ruling party abolished the autonomy of Kashmir which had been respected for 72 years by successive Indian governments. A 'princely state' Jammu and Kashmir joined India at the new country's independence, in 1947 on condition of autonomy, and has contributed considerably to India's image as a tolerant multi-faith democracy. Such perceptions look naive now.
This contemptible action can only be condemned, and is unlikely to have happy consequences.
Among the protections lost was the condition that only residents of Kashmir can buy land and property there - with India's demographics this could be used by central government to effect major demographic change in the majority muslim state.
Credit to bloomberg for publishing a scathing Opinion piece
Bound to lead to increased tensions with Pakistan and also a resurgence of Muslim Insurgency within the State

Whether it turns out to be a solution or not only time will tell
 

Dame_Enda

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
53,453
One of the significant elements of this is they revoked the law banning settlement in Kashmir from other parts of India. Hindu nationalists have long wanted this so they can swamp the region and overturn its Muslim majority.

Personally I consider Hinduism far less anti western than the Islamism, and not as resistant to modernisation. Hindus in the UK have integrated well.But emulating colonialism in Kashmir would only make India guilty of repeating the crimes committed against it during British rule.
 

Catahualpa

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
525
Website
irelandinhistory.blogspot.com
One of the significant elements of this is they revoked the law banning settlement in Kashmir from other parts of India. Hindu nationalists have long wanted this so they can swamp the region and overturn its Muslim majority.
I think its Jammu they want not Kashmir

- it would be a brave Hindustani than would risk his neck in that part of the woods....
 

Dame_Enda

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
53,453
Arresting two former Chief Ministers would be like Ireland arresting two former NI First Ministers in a United Ireland. It is a gross provocation on India's part.
 

former wesleyan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
25,547
Good. Revenge for the killing and displacement of the Pandit Brahmins.

In the late 1980s, an armed rebellion broke out in the Muslim-majority Kashmir Valley, seeking independence from India. The militants often targeted the minority Hindus and attacks and threats saw most of the 350,000 Pandits, as they are also known, fleeing for safety to the Jammu region and elsewhere in India. Today, there are only 2,764 Hindus left there.
 

Dame_Enda

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
53,453
I would point out that Kashmir is not recognised as part of India or indeed Pakistan by the UN. Part of Kashmir is controlled by both countries and another part by China. In British India, Kashmir was a princely-state ruled by a Hindu Maharaja, who signed over his country to India when Pakistan was about to invade, without consulting the Muslim majority there who are very unlikely to have chosen India.
 

Dame_Enda

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
53,453
Modi is a great fan of Netanyahu and Putin as India's positions at the UN have shown e.g. on Crimea. Modi, Bibi, Putin and Erdogan represent an ultranationalist quartet in the international community today.
 

owedtojoy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
47,320
This is another landmark in the decline of secular democracy in India, and its re-creation as a Hindu sectarian state.

Kashmir was the one single state without a Hindu majority, and by crushing its indigenous political leadership, Modi is serving notice to the other states that his will is now the law. Under new legislation, we can expect more Hindu land ownership and immigration of Hindus to Kashmir, much like Chinese in Tibet and Xinjiang.

It is unlikely that Modi can deliver on his economic promises, so expect more sectarian rhetoric and activity in a bid to retain power.
 

owedtojoy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
47,320
Modi is a great fan of Netanyahu and Putin as India's positions at the UN have shown e.g. on Crimea. Modi, Bibi, Putin and Erdogan represent an ultranationalist quartet in the international community today.
While on paper these look strong, in reality all are beset by problems, and their way forward is fraught with opposition and difficulty. Modi, with a massive Parliamentary majority, is probably the strongest.

Netanyahu has to face new elections with a wafer-thin majority. Putin is facing public protest and an economy in decline. On paper, he must retire in 2024. Erdogan got a body blow when he lost the Istanbul election, and must face the Turkish electorate eventually.

It seems that, despite ultra-nationalism, the vast majority of the world's people are not happy to see their votes manipulated by nationalist authoritarians. They cannot be fooled all the time. The likelihood could be that the ultra-nationalist moment has already passed.
 

Ardillaun

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
11,677
It seems that, despite ultra-nationalism, the vast majority of the world's people are not happy to see their votes manipulated by nationalist authoritarians. They cannot be fooled all the time. The likelihood could be that the ultra-nationalist moment has already passed.
I would not be so optimistic about India. Looks like a Hindu parliament for a Hindu people is set to endure for some time.
 
Last edited:

dunno

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Messages
1,265
Good. Revenge for the killing and displacement of the Pandit Brahmins.

In the late 1980s, an armed rebellion broke out in the Muslim-majority Kashmir Valley, seeking independence from India. The militants often targeted the minority Hindus and attacks and threats saw most of the 350,000 Pandits, as they are also known, fleeing for safety to the Jammu region and elsewhere in India. Today, there are only 2,764 Hindus left there.
And Pakistani Moslems think nothing of the most savage violence against Christians (the blasphemy laws as a tool of persecution is so well known) or Moslems they don't consider to be proper Moslems, like the Ahmadiyya (attacks on them in the West tend to be by Pakistani Sunni Moslems) or Shia. Vengeance should be always avoided, an eye for an eye leaves both blind (or whatever the phrase is), but it is hard to feel too much concern for the Sunni Moslems of the subcontinent who bully and persecute, wherever they are paramount, without remorse, without embarrassment, yet screech at any slight response by the victims, like the Hindus of India.
 

yosef shompeter

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
2,764
What is it with the world?
The Muslims are scrapping with the Hindus not only in Kashmir --pretty much throughout India and India/Pakistan, India/Bagla Desh
The Muslims are scrapping with the Burmese/ Myanmar crowd (Buddhists)
The Muslims don't seem to get on too well with the Israelis either :(.
The Chinese (Officially Communists, actually I dunno) are sending them off to "re-education camps"
Integrating into secular Europe seems to be emmmm.... challenging.
Maybe they should all move to Clonskeagh?
 

Golah veNekhar

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Messages
1,449
Growing up I used to see the British Empire that with steel in hand had brought the Bible to millions of people who otherwise would have remained in heathen darkness. Than I read that actually HMG had done virtually nothing to uproot the the particularly dark heathenism that is Hinduism, this startled and up set me, and further research made clear that the British Empire was about commerce, was often very brutal in the capitalistic un-Christian greed that drove it forward, etc, etc. Hindu supremacism is only matched by certain forms of Jewish supremacism- it is almost impossible to describe as twisted and wicked a majority of Hindu society is over there, and just how murderously brutal the treatment of minorities has always been by the Indian state since it gained it's independence from HMG.
 

Kevin Parlon

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
11,290
Twitter
Deiscirt
Forcing undemocratic change on populations is wrong. Engineering demographic change (what this move on Kashmir looks like) on a people against their will is worse. This is probably red meat for the Hindu nationalists of the BJP. It's hard to interpret this move as benign. This is a bad development.

For the likers (Splodge, owedtojoy and Golah veNekhar) however, a call for consistency. Why is major demographic change imposed against the will of the established population bad for Kashmiris yet good for Europeans?

Do you have a coherent explanation (that isn't racist) for this blatant hypocrisy?

Growing up I used to see the British Empire that with steel in hand had brought the Bible to millions of people who otherwise would have remained in heathen darkness. Than I read that actually HMG had done virtually nothing to uproot the the particularly dark heathenism that is Hinduism, this startled and up set me, and further research made clear that the British Empire was about commerce, was often very brutal in the capitalistic un-Christian greed that drove it forward, etc, etc. Hindu supremacism is only matched by certain forms of Jewish supremacism- it is almost impossible to describe as twisted and wicked a majority of Hindu society is over there, and just how murderously brutal the treatment of minorities has always been by the Indian state since it gained it's independence from HMG.
When you filter out this Muslim supremacist horse shite (which sounds like it's been lifted from a speech by Anjem Choudry) you're left with the following facts:

1. India is the 3rd largest Muslim country in the world. There are more Muslims living there than Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Morocco, Yemen and Iraq combined.
2. India guarantees religious freedom.
3. Unlike any Arab or middle Eastern Muslim majority state, India is a secular democracy. And they persist with this despite a) Hindus being a huge majority there who could at a stroke institute the kind of sadistically sectarian regime we see in Saudi Arabia and b) vicious, repeated and consistent provocation from Pakistan and their (Arab Muslim) sponsors.
4. The level of sectarian violence (despite the hot-spots and flare-ups) is genuinely astonishingly low.

Special shout-out LOL to this poster who's described a secular state which eventually succeeded the invading, imperialistic theorcratic tyrants of the Mugal empire as "murderously brutal in the treatment of minorities". Top marks for unconscious hilarity and abject historical ignorance. Bonus points too for the dig at capitalism. Bravo sir/madam.
 

Kevin Parlon

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
11,290
Twitter
Deiscirt
Bound to lead to increased tensions with Pakistan and also a resurgence of Muslim Insurgency within the State

Whether it turns out to be a solution or not only time will tell
I think this is red meat thrown to the BJP. I also think it's a bad move. That said, beyond the headlines are the facts that Jammu is majority Hindu, Ladakah is majority Buddhist (areas of the region) and no Western country would tolerate the level of sedition India has dealt with in the region for so long. Is the solution forced assimilation/chinese style oppression? No. Is the solution ceding the country to the parasitic, failed terror sponsoring state of Pakistan? No. It's a complex problem with no easy solution.
 

Kevin Parlon

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
11,290
Twitter
Deiscirt
But emulating colonialism in Kashmir
How do you think Kashmir became Muslim in the first place? Peaceful settlement in the 800's of a land that's been civilized for 5,000 years? How far back do you want to row against colonialism? Not all the way? Fine. When/where? Be consistent. Kashmir is only Muslim because it was colonised. What's your benchmark? The existing population? Fine, then apply that to Israel and notice how consistent you're being. You're on your Israeli hobby horse here I know but you *really* need to take a much longer view of things. You're being inconsistent which is a hallmark of not fully thinking things through,
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top