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Indian women fight back against misogynistic divorce law.

Ruadh

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A Women's group is calling for the sky lord to be taken out of the legal system to stop inequality and human rights violations.

India's Supreme Court is currently deciding a case on 'triple talaq' instant divorces which is governed under the Shari'a system of Skylord law.



The Muslim Women’s Quest for Equality (MWQE) filed an affidavit arguing Shari'a courts, which govern marriage, divorce and family cases for India’s 150 million Muslims, should not be allowed to function as a parallel judiciary.

The courts have a funny habit of being deeply misogynistic. A man can say three times I divorce you and it's done. Pop quiz: can a woman do the same? If you answered no go to the top of the class unless you are a woman in which case please stay in the back. The courts in its wisdom sometimes allow men to even send a postcard or delegate the power to someone else. One case saw a man divorce his wife by text after she was gang raped.

What started the latest push against this backwards and ignorant approach was a Sharia court ordered a woman to leave her husband and children to live with her father-in-law, who had raped her. That's problematic since clearly her right to not live with her rapist is less than the need to have her under appropriate male guardianship. Appropriate for whom?

Anyhoo the Muslimslim Woman's group case said ' organisations including the All India Muslim Personal Law Board (AIMPLB) “should be abolished to save the country and Indian Muslims from the clamp of fundamentalists/activists,” '.

That's interesting isn't it. They don't feel the need to say some women should be free to subject to sharia, they don't pull back from pointing out the obvious fact that if you push for Sharia and skylord law then you are fundie and most importantly they point out that it's Muslims who are becoming the first victims of those extremists. And women the very very first victims.

The women are pointing out that the divorce law is determined by the patriarchy and Relegate women to second class citizens. Who could argue with that. Neither from fear nor seeking favour they call a spade a spade. There is no attempt to sell it as voluntary, as different but equally valid. its wrong and it treats women as second class. It's an inspiring approach.

The counter arguments from the Muslim Personal Law board are very powerful though.

In evidence to Indian Supreme Court, it argued that men have greater reasoning power compared to women, and that a man using “triple talaq” was a better option than murdering her or burning her alive, Reuters reported.

“Sharia grants the right to divorce because men have greater power of decision making,” the group said. “They are more likely to control emotions and not take a hasty decision.”
That's a superb line of reasoning and you wouldn't expect it be in a court but then these are men who trained in reading their version of the Bible and using that as a law book.
Men are less emotional but might burn their wife alive. We must assume that when they burn their wives they do so from a rational perspective of discipling her.

India's position is it cannot ban the courts as each religious group gets to let it's skylord rig things up for men as the men see fit ( funny that). The problem that women have no rights under it is still being considered and the supreme Court is looking into the petition.

They state so long as it's voluntary people can go to the court. Voluntary in the context of the law board arguing otherwise men will douse petrol in their missus is indication enough of how voluntary it is.

The religious fascists will say it's offensive, that the community is being targeted but women in that very community will finally be more than property and the idea that you can burn them would be on the way out.

What's wonderful about the ladies challenging skylord law is they seem to appreciate that you need to offend the ignorant, the misogynistic, the fascists because otherwise you acquiesce and in that acquiescence women continue to be abused.

Níl aon saoirse gan saoirse na mban.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/womens-group-calls-for-sharia-courts-to-be-banned-in-india-to-stop-inequality-and-human-rights-a7231441.html#gallery
 
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Ruadh

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Careful now. Let's not get Hinduphobic.
?

Hindus are not involved in this topic though perhaps only to the degree that Hindu religious law is allowed to abuse certain groups. Is the caste system prescribed in Hindu law incidentally?
 

eoinmcneil

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Its an interesting topic, look forward to reading what a few other posters with Indian knowledge have to say about this.

On the one hand, the Sharia system being challenged is rigged to the nines against women and as the OP quotes ran by rampant misogynists. And if this is a genuine grassroots challenge by Muslim women that that is heartening for a whole host of reasons

On the other hand, one can't divorce this from the political context. The govt is going to file an amicus claim on this, and that shouldn't be a surprise considering its the BJP; i hardly need to rehearse the BJP's views of muslims.

This is the latest chapter in a long story and the courts have usually done the right thing- worth reading the history on divorce payments to muslim ex wives. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohd._Ahmed_Khan_v._Shah_Bano_Begum

In contrast to Congress, the current govt will be only too delighted to enforce any ruling the Supreme Court makes on this case.
 
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Ruadh

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Interesting bit of trivia, In Pakistan if a couple divorce and want to remarry , the wife has to marry another man first and have sex with him...its mad Ted

https://twitter.com/TarekFatah/status/773819890025107456

https://twitter.com/AshutoshVBajpai/status/773819194018181121
Presumably if she wants to remarry a man then sex is likely to happen but isn't it the big issue that she is being told she has to have sex in order to complete the divorce and isnt also the issue that by having sex with her new husband it's clear who has "mating" rights with her. I put it primitively since it's a primitive approach.

Its's their culture but should we accept it. We can't change it but we shouldn't accept it.
 

silverharp

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Presumably if she wants to remarry a man then sex is likely to happen but isn't it the big issue that she is being told she has to have sex in order to complete the divorce and isnt also the issue that by having sex with her new husband it's clear who has "mating" rights with her. I put it primitively since it's a primitive approach.

Its's their culture but should we accept it. We can't change it but we shouldn't accept it.
we can be critical from a far I guess, whether we "accept" it or not is neither here nor there. Like the West marriage rates are falling in Islam. If the social aim of creating families is a social good then the contracts should not favour or penalise either party, maybe personalised contracts are the way to go?
 

former wesleyan

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?

Hindus are not involved in this topic though perhaps only to the degree that Hindu religious law is allowed to abuse certain groups. Is the caste system prescribed in Hindu law incidentally?
The law in India isn't " Hindu " and the caste system is proscribed, but still functions quite brazenly. Quotas are set in education and government employment for the Scheduled Castes. Muslims go their own way as per the OP .
 

Ruadh

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The law in India isn't " Hindu " and the caste system is proscribed, but still functions quite brazenly. Quotas are set in education and government employment for the Scheduled Castes. Muslims go their own way as per the OP .
Correct, but I meant the Hindu legal system allowed to operate side by side with the state.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Hindu_law

In India secular means all religions have the right to run their own religious law system.

It's a funny system.
 

talkingshop

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Presumably if she wants to remarry a man then sex is likely to happen but isn't it the big issue that she is being told she has to have sex in order to complete the divorce and isnt also the issue that by having sex with her new husband it's clear who has "mating" rights with her. I put it primitively since it's a primitive approach.

Its's their culture but should we accept it. We can't change it but we shouldn't accept it.
I read a novel once, can't remember the name of it, and this was a central theme in it. Apparently the thinking behind it is that it discourages men from rashly divorcing their wives (by saying I divorce you 3 times) - because they know that if they do, then regret it, they can't simply re-marry the wife (assuming she wants to), unless the wife has married someone else in the meantime, and divorced them. Pretty mental stuff, but Allah said it apparently, so what can you do...
 

former wesleyan

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Correct, but I meant the Hindu legal system allowed to operate side by side with the state.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Hindu_law

In India secular means all religions have the right to run their own religious law system.

It's a funny system.
The law is basically modern but is called the Hindu Marriage Act ; in other words it's for the majority. The main reason for allowing the minority religions to have their own laws is because of the Hindu distaste for consanguinity. And I really mean distaste.
 

silverharp

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The law is basically modern but is called the Hindu Marriage Act ; in other words it's for the majority. The main reason for allowing the minority religions to have their own laws is because of the Hindu distaste for consanguinity. And I really mean distaste.
do you mean there are essentially different laws for marrying cousins? , that's unusual
 

former wesleyan

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do you mean there are essentially different laws for marrying cousins? , that's unusual
Muslims are permitted to anyone who hasn't shared their mothers milk. Which means first cousins are permitted to marry. Hindus go back to 4th or fifth generations. Scriptural Christians are allowed to marry their first cousins as well.
 

silverharp

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Muslims are permitted to anyone who hasn't shared their mothers milk. Which means first cousins are permitted to marry. Hindus go back to 4th or fifth generations. Scriptural Christians are allowed to marry their first cousins as well.
I understand the different religions have their own internal rules but the civil law wouldn't stop non muslims from marrying first cousins?
 

Ruadh

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Muslims are permitted to anyone who hasn't shared their mothers milk. Which means first cousins are permitted to marry. Hindus go back to 4th or fifth generations. Scriptural Christians are allowed to marry their first cousins as well.
:confused: how does formula milk affect this?
 

former wesleyan

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I understand the different religions have their own internal rules but the civil law wouldn't stop non muslims from marrying first cousins?
OK…from the Sacred Cows mouth…she says civil law does not permit consanguinity and civil law applies to Hindus mainly. Religious Hindus will not marry cousins in the north of India but in the south of India it's permitted. Muslims do not marry in civil law, so they are permitted to marry cousins.
 

silverharp

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OK…from the Sacred Cows mouth…she says civil law does not permit consanguinity and civil law applies to Hindus mainly. Religious Hindus will not marry cousins in the north of India but in the south of India it's permitted. Muslims do not marry in civil law, so they are permitted to marry cousins.
interesting, they should make that the civil law here but not give Muslims an exemption, it cant be great for the gene pool if they do
 

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