• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please us viua the Contact us link in the footer.

Inflation at 0.5% but breakdown tells a lot more


Fides

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
4,441
Headline figures show a low level of inflation for September but a look at the breakdown shows something else is going on

http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/prices/current/pic.pdf

The big jumps are in housing (mortgages up/rents down), utilities and education. Meanwhile retailers are still seeing deflation. Not the best combination from a business point of view as input costs in terms of overheads (utilities, transport, communication) are rising but receipts from sales are still falling. Education up 9.5% is a big leap.
 


Newffowner

Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
94
As usual those areas under the control of the state are rising, evidence that this shower are not addressing the real issue of unemployment, our underlying uncompetitiveness.

Until they remove the state induced high overheads unemployment is only going to get worse.:mad:
 

myksav

Well-known member
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
23,546
Interesting. Looking at what is up and what is down, and comparing those with my usage/expenditures, my expenditures are all up.

From report:
04 Housing, Water, Electricity, Gas and Other Fuels + 6.76
07 Transport + 0.71
01 Food and Non-Alcoholic Beverages + 0.47
03 Clothing and Footwear + 0.31
10 Education + 0.13 06 Health - 0.06
08 Communications + 0.11

02 Alcoholic Beverages and Tobacco - 0.66
12 Miscellaneous Goods and Services - 0.50
11 Restaurants and Hotels - 0.20
09 Recreation and Culture - 0.15
05 Furnishings, Household Equipment and Routine
Household Maintenance - 0.01

So much for things being cheaper.
 

GJG

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
3,117
Website
blog.hereshow.ie
What people don't often address is that inflation is an average figure. As seen above it is possible to calculate inflation in different sectors of the economy, but also for different types of people.

Older people buy a different mix of goods to younger people, and the rich buy a different mix to the poor, so all these groups can experience different types of inflation - or in Ireland's case, deflation. For this reason it is worth comparing social welfare changes to their inflation rates, and the same for changes in wage levels of different sectors.

The consensus on this is that the higher up the income scale you go, the lower your inflation rate has been in recent years. Consumer electronics and air travel have been collapsing in price, while staples have increased, and this pattern of difference between top- and bottom-end inflation is reflected across many categories.

In addition, the fixed charges of the type that the government tends to impose form a bigger proportion of poorer households' spending, and therefore a larger component of the inflation rate that they experience. I think that this should inform the debate about adjusting social welfare and public sector pay levels.
 

libertarian-right

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
2,492
It is primarily State driven inflation
+1 which is mainly driven by the need to fund our debt (bank bailout / NAMA / deficit)

This totally voids the arguement from FF/Greens that they are doing ANYTHING to make us more competitive, in fact they are making things worse.
 

GJG

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
3,117
Website
blog.hereshow.ie
I'm looking forward to the spinning from those who used deflation as an excuse to slash welfare as to why we shouldn't increase it now that we have inflation. :)
Honest question, Biffo: Annual deficit running at €22bn per year. Depending on who you believe, that's a banking bailout once ever two to three years.

Assuming that you accept that this is not sustainable, roughly what mix of spending cuts and tax increases would you use to close the gap?
 

Mitsui2

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2009
Messages
33,328
I think that this should inform the debate about adjusting social welfare and public sector pay levels.
There's a debate? All I ever hear is a few people pointing out facts such as you've done and then being shouted down by a lot of people who don't like the poor.
 

myksav

Well-known member
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
23,546
I'm looking forward to the spinning from those who used deflation as an excuse to slash welfare as to why we shouldn't increase it now that we have inflation. :)
Ah, BvB, you know that won't happen. Those who argued to reduce SW in line with deflation only want to reduce the SW regardless.

I wouldn't agree with lowering the SW beyond what is is now but I don't think we need to raise it. Yet.
 

myksav

Well-known member
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
23,546
Not if you are alcoholic renter, hic! :p
Dammit, I'm a "teetotaler"* and I own my house outright, I'm stuffed. :mad:

*If a teetotaler would have one beer in 15 years.
 

CorkHurler

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2004
Messages
545
There's a debate? All I ever hear is a few people pointing out facts such as you've done and then being shouted down by a lot of people who don't like the poor.
I think you'll find the shouting down is being down by the myriad of extremely well paid people who claim to represent the poor and who have a vested interest in keeping people on welfare for as long as possible.
 

Baron von Biffo

Well-known member
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
11,463
Honest question, Biffo: Annual deficit running at €22bn per year. Depending on who you believe, that's a banking bailout once ever two to three years.

Assuming that you accept that this is not sustainable, roughly what mix of spending cuts and tax increases would you use to close the gap?
If the opposition parties can't answer that question without the backing of the department of finance you'd hardly expect me to manage it.

What I'm trying to get at here is when we had deflation it was used by several posters here as an excuse to call for cuts in welfare. If those posters are to be consistent they will now be calling for increases in welfare because we have inflation. Now I don't believe for a minute that they will because it was just right wing tosh using deflation as a fig leaf but I'd love to hear how they'll try to spin their way out of the hole.
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
32,951
If the opposition parties can't answer that question without the backing of the department of finance you'd hardly expect me to manage it.

What I'm trying to get at here is when we had deflation it was used by several posters here as an excuse to call for cuts in welfare. If those posters are to be consistent they will now be calling for increases in welfare because we have inflation. Now I don't believe for a minute that they will because it was just right wing tosh using deflation as a fig leaf but I'd love to hear how they'll try to spin their way out of the hole.
I have never used any other argument other than we can't afford the current social welfare rates and they all should be cut. That includes pensions.
 
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
3,584
Interesting. Looking at what is up and what is down, and comparing those with my usage/expenditures, my expenditures are all up.

From report:
04 Housing, Water, Electricity, Gas and Other Fuels + 6.76
07 Transport + 0.71
01 Food and Non-Alcoholic Beverages + 0.47
03 Clothing and Footwear + 0.31
10 Education + 0.13 06 Health - 0.06
08 Communications + 0.11

02 Alcoholic Beverages and Tobacco - 0.66
12 Miscellaneous Goods and Services - 0.50
11 Restaurants and Hotels - 0.20
09 Recreation and Culture - 0.15
05 Furnishings, Household Equipment and Routine
Household Maintenance - 0.01

So much for things being cheaper.

So the government are going to take social welfare from the poorest at a time when things are costing more.

Madness.
 
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
3,584
I wonder why alcahol is getting cheaper? Is this a state sponsered way to keep people from rising up?

Just fill em with booze, that ill keep em quiet.
 

MPB

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
4,465
These figures should cover the 2 different economies we have in Ireland.

The State run economy and the Private sector economy.

The Private sector economy/ ie the capitalist driven economy that has to compete in the market place is deflating to surrvive. This of course benefits consumers.

The Public Sector/ ie the economy with no competition and with inbuilt job protection, is inflating to protect itself.

Lets see which one will destroy the overall economy?
 

GJG

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
3,117
Website
blog.hereshow.ie
What I'm trying to get at here is when we had deflation it was used by several posters here as an excuse to call for cuts in welfare. If those posters are to be consistent they will now be calling for increases in welfare because we have inflation. Now I don't believe for a minute that they will because it was just right wing tosh using deflation as a fig leaf but I'd love to hear how they'll try to spin their way out of the hole.
Biffo

If you read my first post on this thread, you will see that I started by refuting that SW should necessarily be linked to average inflation, and that this link is not advantageous to SW recipients.

If the opposition parties can't answer that question without the backing of the department of finance you'd hardly expect me to manage it.
Honestly, I think that is a poor response. We are running an annual deficit, excluding the bailouts, of €22bn. At the very least, that is the equal of another bank bailout every three years, probably more.

You have stridently argued against a variety of deficit-reducing measures such as reducing the PS payroll, and now here against SW cuts. In some cases I agree with you, in some cases not, but I acknowledge that most deficit-reduction measures are a) painful and b) necessary, regardless whether they are cuts or tax increases.

But as well as opposing some ideas, I also try to suggest some. I am aware that anyone who proposes anything is setting themselves up for being attacked by the vested interests that they are challenging. Everyone wants the axe to fall on someone else.

I think that anyone who argues against all cuts and all tax increases is guilty of cowardice. I am not asking you for precise costings and amounts. I am asking you, roughly, what proportion of that €22bn you would seek from cuts and what proportion from tax increases? For cuts, roughly which departments would you prioritise? For taxes, would you increase taxes across the board, or target particular areas?

I am willing to put concrete proposals. Others will disagree. This creates a debate and, hopefully, thrashes out issues, and gets us closer to a national consensus. We will never get to consensus, but if all voices are heard, we will get closer. People who simply attack all proposals without advocating anything don't get us closer to that. I'm trying to contribute, what are you trying to do?
 

New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top