Information thread: The ECHR is NOT an EU institution

Al.

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For the purpose of clearing up the confusion on the part of several posters:

The European Union is political/trading bloc of 27 members which can be said to have its origins in the Treaty of Rome, 1957. The court of the European Union is called the European Court of Justice (there is also a smaller 'General Court').

The Council of Europe is older, being formed in 1949. It has 47 members, including all the EU members but also others such as Russia, Turkey, the Balkan non EU countries, Iceland.. essentially all bar Belarus, Kazhakstan (which are dictatorships) and the Vatican (a theocracy), these, with others, having observer status. Its court, which is charged with implementing the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), is called the European Court of Human Rights. It is not to be confused with the European Council or the Council of the European Union, which are both EU bodies.

The Council of Europe and the ECtHR have nothing to do with the European Union (despite an overlap of membership).

Ireland is a member of both.

Any other confusions surrounding the EU or Council of Europe, whether within or between each, might usefully be addressed on this thread.
Just because they say so does not make it true. The whole shebang (CoE and EU) are the same bunch, built on the same pack of lies, and controlled by the same country on the Rhine.
 


Lempo

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The Council of Europe is older, being formed in 1949. It has 47 members, including all the EU members but also others such as Russia, Turkey, the Balkan non EU countries, Iceland.. essentially all bar Belarus, Kazhakstan (which are dictatorships) and the Vatican (a theocracy), these, with others, having observer status. Its court, which is charged with implementing the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), is called the European Court of Human Rights. It is not to be confused with the European Council or the Council of the European Union, which are both EU bodies.

The Council of Europe and the ECtHR have nothing to do with the European Union (despite an overlap of membership).
Curious thing in the whole deal is that while all the EU member states are members of the ECHR, EU itself is not. Apparently they are now going to make the membership happen as per Treaty of Lisbon but some of the EU member states seem to be dragging their feet in it.

I have let myself be told that a huge beef in the matter has been European Court of Justice and its unwillingness to have European Court of Human Rights in superior position to it. Some curious tweaking seems to still be done around the matter.

EU accession to the Convention
 

Sync

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Just because they say so does not make it true. The whole shebang (CoE and EU) are the same bunch, built on the same pack of lies, and controlled by the same country on the Rhine.
Jesus. So this is it. This is how far we've descended. Despite it clearly being explained in the OP there are still those who either A: Can't read the OP or B: Think Russia are a member of the EU.

And you thought this thread wasn't needed Lamport. In fact not only is it needed, but the OP should have included a venn diagram using crayons explaining it to the slower learners.
 

kvran

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And you thought this thread wasn't needed Lamport. In fact not only is it needed, but the OP should have included a venn diagram using crayons explaining it to the slower learners.
It would still be too complex for some people.
 

MrD011

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The European Union is political/trading bloc of 27 members

The Council of Europe is older, being formed in 1949.

The Council of Europe and the ECtHR have nothing to do with the European Union
this is completely untrue , the council of Europe receives 88% of its funding from the EU and takes part in many Joint Contracts and Operations , Both share the same founding fathers and both share the same Flag . The Council of Europe basically deals with Immigration issues in the member countries for example the establishment of Immigrant rights centres and councils and is being funded to do so by the EU , it is the EU colonisation wing .

I hope this clears up the confusion for you Toxic as you are the only one thats confused about the inter relationship between the both.
 

ibis

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Black - it's the new white for stupid people!
 
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this is completely untrue , the council of Europe receives 88% of its funding from the EU and takes part in many Joint Contracts and Operations , Both share the same founding fathers and both share the same Flag . The Council of Europe basically deals with Immigration issues in the member countries for example the establishment of Immigrant rights centres and councils and is being funded to do so by the EU , it is the EU colonisation wing .

I hope this clears up the confusion for you Toxic as you are the only one thats confused about the inter relationship between the both.
The UK, Ireland, Denmark, Sweden, and Norway, all founding members of the Council of Europe, were NOT founding fathers of the EU, the latter not being a member still now. The Council of Europe does not only deal with immigration issues issues (it deals with everything from torture, terrorism, rendition to people trafficking to minority languages to the environment), while free movement of workers/citizens is very much part of the ECJ's jurisprudence. The EctHR's jurisprudence is a distinct one from that of the ECJ, though it obviously influences it, particularly since the adoption of the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights (adopted to allow the EU to sign up to the Convention). The ECtHR is much closer to the British common law system, while the ECJ is essentially like the civil codes in most continental countries (down to the very sparse nature of the judgments - no dissenting opinions or detailed reasoning). Funding of the Council of Europe comes from the member states, not the EU, and if most of the funding comes from EU member states that is because there are 27 countries in the EU, most of central, western, and southern Europe.

There is overlap, there is co-operation, there are areas of common concern, but the two are distinct. To describe the Council of Europe as the 'EU colonization wing' makes absolutely no sense.
 
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MrD011

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Funding of the Council of Europe comes from the member states, not the EU, .
Joint programmes between the Council of Europe and the EU have remained the largest source of funding sustaining Council of Europe technical assistance and co-operation projects in support of democratic stability throughout Europe. A €4 million EU-financed “Facility” is currently being implemented with the countries of the Eastern Partnership of the EU through a series of multilateral activities.

On 17 January 2012, the Secretary General signed with Commissioner Füle a three-year €4.8 million EU-financed programme supporting the process of democratic transition in the Southern Mediterranean. Joint Programmes are also being finalised for Kazakhstan. The partnership with the EU is therefore of vital importance for the success of the policy of the Council of Europe towards its neighbouring regions.

Co-operation has also further developed at the level of field representations. As it was the case last year, the Delegation of the EU to the Council of Europe in Strasbourg and the Council of Europe Liaison Office in Brussels have significantly facilitated the reinforcement of the partnership. Recent initiatives, such as jointly organised training courses on the Council of Europe for the staff of the European Commission and the European External Action Service, as well as public events organised by the Liaison Office in Brussels, have contributed to raising the partnership with the EU and the visibility of the Organisation and shall be further developed.
 

Mercurial

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Joint programmes between the Council of Europe and the EU have remained the largest source of funding sustaining Council of Europe technical assistance and co-operation projects in support of democratic stability throughout Europe. A €4 million EU-financed “Facility” is currently being implemented with the countries of the Eastern Partnership of the EU through a series of multilateral activities.

On 17 January 2012, the Secretary General signed with Commissioner Füle a three-year €4.8 million EU-financed programme supporting the process of democratic transition in the Southern Mediterranean. Joint Programmes are also being finalised for Kazakhstan. The partnership with the EU is therefore of vital importance for the success of the policy of the Council of Europe towards its neighbouring regions.

Co-operation has also further developed at the level of field representations. As it was the case last year, the Delegation of the EU to the Council of Europe in Strasbourg and the Council of Europe Liaison Office in Brussels have significantly facilitated the reinforcement of the partnership. Recent initiatives, such as jointly organised training courses on the Council of Europe for the staff of the European Commission and the European External Action Service, as well as public events organised by the Liaison Office in Brussels, have contributed to raising the partnership with the EU and the visibility of the Organisation and shall be further developed.
Sources please.
 

ibis

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Sources please.
http://www.coe.int/t/der/docs/EU/GREXT2012_7_EN.pdf

It was, after all, obvious from the language that it was a copy and paste! Sure, it doesn't mean what MrD011 seems to think it means - often the way with copypasta - but it's genuine enough in itself.

Not sure how the fact that EU/CoE joint programmes are the largest source of funding for "democratic stability projects in Eastern Europe" is supposed to prove that the EU is the CoE's biggest funder. I suspect MrD011 didn't read it that closely - he probably only saw "EU....biggest source of funding sustaining Council of Europe".
 

MrD011

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The Lisbon Treaty provides for the EUs accession to the ECHR , the EU and the Council of Europe have recently entered into an agreement that will see the EU signing up to the European Convention on Human rights and thus the Court of Human rights will be the highest court within the EU.

please now remove this thread from being Sticky.
 

SilverSpurs

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The Lisbon Treaty provides for the EUs accession to the ECHR , the EU and the Council of Europe have recently entered into an agreement that will see the EU signing up to the European Convention on Human rights and thus the Court of Human rights will be the highest court within the EU.

please now remove this thread from being Sticky.
Exactly the Lisbon treaty paves the way for the merging of the ECJ and ECHR. The COFR is a rip off of the convention and ruling of the ECHR are deemed precedent in interpreting the COFR.
 

GDPR

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The Lisbon Treaty provides for the EUs accession to the ECHR , the EU and the Council of Europe have recently entered into an agreement that will see the EU signing up to the European Convention on Human rights and thus the Court of Human rights will be the highest court within the EU.

please now remove this thread from being Sticky.
That doesn't make it an EU institution though, not at all.
 

Mercurial

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The Lisbon Treaty provides for the EUs accession to the ECHR , the EU and the Council of Europe have recently entered into an agreement that will see the EU signing up to the European Convention on Human rights and thus the Court of Human rights will be the highest court within the EU.

please now remove this thread from being Sticky.
....you know you've just provided evidence against your own position, right? If one was a branch of the other, there would be no need for the EU to accede to the ECHR in the first place.
 

Ren84

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It's still quite amazing that this basic fact has to be continuously repeated.
 


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