Information thread: The ECHR is NOT an EU institution

cyberianpan

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The ECHR is still stashed full of useless Eurocrat types and produces extremist pinko PC style judgements

Literally their judgements say that terrorists are lovely people and cannot be deported

cYp
 


crossman

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In fairness, it can be a bit confusing - there is a Council of Europe, a Council of the European Union, and a European Council. The difference between the CJEU (formerly ECJ) and the ECtHR still stumps some people I know who actually studied it...
That really shouldn't be the case but what is worse is the UK media misrepresenting the ECHR as an EU institution (deliberately so most of the time IMO).
 

Al.

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That really shouldn't be the case but what is worse is the UK media misrepresenting the ECHR as an EU institution (deliberately so most of the time IMO).
If it exerts power by and for the EU, it is an EU institution. Never mind bearing the name of "Europe". Just because it says it isn't an EU institution does not mean it is not.

This thread needs to be un-stickied; it's outlived its usefulness, if it ever had any to begin with. Its only purpose seems to have been to spread EU propaganda after all.
 
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If it exerts power by and for the EU, it is an EU institution. Never mind bearing the name of "Europe". Just because it says it isn't an EU institution does not mean it is not.

This thread needs to be un-stickied; it's outlived its usefulness, if it ever had any to begin with. Its only purpose seems to have been to spread EU propaganda after all.
So.. a Eurosceptic OPer who was arguing against Lisbon 1 and Lisbon 2 on here for months on end, and who was viewed like a Martian when he argued against the single currency, and who opposes both federalism and further integration, started this thread to further EU propaganda by suggesting that the ECHR/Council of Europe membership of Russia, Turkey, Norway etc. means that it is a different organisation entirely from the EU?

I guess that chimes with LamportEdge's insistence that i had a hidden agenda when starting this thread - except his was that it was because I don't like the ECHR because of abortion, even though I am a stout defender of the ECHR.

Amazing how a simple information thread still manages to attract this level of weird...
 

Kitty O'Shea

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I've haven't noticed national coverage on the raise in allowances MEPs are giving themselves on the grounds these allowances are the same since 2011. I found the article in euobserver.com but is behind a paywall so can't post any more details.
 

TheSmallFella

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...This is just an info thread anyway.

[and]...

Amazing how a simple information thread still manages to attract this level of weird...
I completely disagree and think you are being unfair. Facts (information) are the only things worth debating and examining for interpretation on p.ie because then, and only then, does faith in the facts come into play.
Let us say, for instance, that I post Michael Paulkovich’s research that found no verifiable mention of the Palestinian Jew, Yeshua, from 126 writers during the ‘time of Jesus’ from the first to third centuries BCE and that the mentions of said rabbi in Josephus were added later by editors. Now, I have chosen a provocative example (and this is not a religious debate). We can both examine the facts or ‘facts’ and determine that yes they hold up to examination or no, they should be rejected due to …..
That Paulkovich’s research exists and may be verified as existing is beyond dispute but we would waste much space on p.ie disputing whether “we have faith in these facts.”
Similarly, what the good folks on p.ie are doing, and why I am wasting my tea break, is asking “do we have faith in these facts” as laid out on this thread. I don’t think we should dismiss this need for faith in your information.
For the record, Ireland is a better place because of both the EU and the Court – I would just like to see a little bit more democracy taking place in both. (and I would like to see sawdust back on the floor of small-town butchers).
 
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I completely disagree and think you are being unfair. Facts (information) are the only things worth debating and examining for interpretation on p.ie because then, and only then, does faith in the facts come into play.
Let us say, for instance, that I post Michael Paulkovich’s research that found no verifiable mention of the Palestinian Jew, Yeshua, from 126 writers during the ‘time of Jesus’ from the first to third centuries BCE and that the mentions of said rabbi in Josephus were added later by editors. Now, I have chosen a provocative example (and this is not a religious debate). We can both examine the facts or ‘facts’ and determine that yes they hold up to examination or no, they should be rejected due to …..
That Paulkovich’s research exists and may be verified as existing is beyond dispute but we would waste much space on p.ie disputing whether “we have faith in these facts.”
Similarly, what the good folks on p.ie are doing, and why I am wasting my tea break, is asking “do we have faith in these facts” as laid out on this thread. I don’t think we should dismiss this need for faith in your information.
For the record, Ireland is a better place because of both the EU and the Court – I would just like to see a little bit more democracy taking place in both. (and I would like to see sawdust back on the floor of small-town butchers).
It's not including those who claim that the ECHR and CJEU etc are separate institutions (though they're just wrong). I was talking about one poster who thought that me posting the information merely to help people distinguish the two bodies was part of a pro-EU agenda (clearly someone who wasn't here during the Lisbon debates) and another who thought it was part of some cunningly disguised anti-abortion agenda. These people are a new level of paranoid weird (and wrong).
 

ibis

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So.. a Eurosceptic OPer who was arguing against Lisbon 1 and Lisbon 2 on here for months on end, and who was viewed like a Martian when he argued against the single currency, and who opposes both federalism and further integration, started this thread to further EU propaganda by suggesting that the ECHR/Council of Europe membership of Russia, Turkey, Norway etc. means that it is a different organisation entirely from the EU?

I guess that chimes with LamportEdge's insistence that i had a hidden agenda when starting this thread - except his was that it was because I don't like the ECHR because of abortion, even though I am a stout defender of the ECHR.

Amazing how a simple information thread still manages to attract this level of weird...
Well, you attracted Al., so the weird level was necessarily going to jump into the stratosphere. Also, your personal euroscepticism is rational and healthy, which puts you in the usual position of a rational person in a primarily emotive movement - you'd be standing next to me at the sunny wall come the glorious day, I'm afraid.
 
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Well, you attracted Al., so the weird level was necessarily going to jump into the stratosphere. Also, your personal euroscepticism is rational and healthy, which puts you in the usual position of a rational person in a primarily emotive movement - you'd be standing next to me at the sunny wall come the glorious day, I'm afraid.
I already get attacked by people who thought I was a Eurosceptic loon a few years ago for now not being Eurosceptic enough (no to outright withdrawal, pulling out of monetary union dangerous, etc) - and, of course, they always thought the way they do now. People are just odd, I suppose.
 

ibis

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I already get attacked by people who thought I was a Eurosceptic loon a few years ago for now not being Eurosceptic enough (no to outright withdrawal, pulling out of monetary union dangerous, etc) - and, of course, they always thought the way they do now. People are just odd, I suppose.
Some people think that knowing things is the same as supporting them, and telling them to other people is therefore an exercise in propaganda. Only ignorance can be pure.
 

smith1971

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Macron & Schulz team - an attempt to rescue the EU project

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In the run-up to elections in France and Germany, EU structural institutions are focusing their efforts on saving Europe from the crisis caused by the unwillingness of the European political elites to adapt to globalization.

Conservative politicians in leading European countries systematically show their inability to respond to the challenges of our hard time. As a result, the EU policy-making bodies have to get elections in France and Germany under their control as the EU reformatting requires the necessary staff in key countries to form virile economic government.

Havas, known as one of the largest integrated marketing communications agencies in the world, is used by the World Bank with the aim to secure election victory of Emmanuel Macron in France, as well as, Martin Schulz in Germany. It is worth noting that significant experience and a wide range of Havas activities involving PR for the National Assembly and Ministry for the Economy and Finance of France, IBM, UNF, as well as, the viral marketing campaign for Pokemon Go and others offers great opportunities for political candidates.

Quite recently, ex-Minister for the Economy and Finance of France, Emmanuel Macron, the younger clone of hugely unpopular Francois Hollande, could hardly hope for a dominating position in the presidential race. But today the lack of a team and programme that could become at least some alternative to the incomprehensible course of ruling Socialists, doesn't stop him being the favourite of the forthcoming elections. The reason is that not only French, but also common European administrative resources work for Macron now. EU bureaucrats go to any lengths to stop the advance of right-wing conservative forces and put the confirmed Atlanticist in command of one of the key countries in Europe.

In Brussels' view, the chairman of the Social Democratic Party of Germany (SPD), Martin Schulz should be considered a partner of Macron in another leading EU member-country as his work experience in the European structures guarantees the involvement in the Atlantic system of supranational political ties. Aсting Chancellor of Germany, Angela Merkel, cannot be Macron's partner. She manifests the diktat of Germany in the EU, and that is why she recognizes the need to put national interests ahead of common European interests. In fact, Merkel belongs to such type of conservative politicians as the uncrowned 'king of Poland', Jaroslaw Kaczynski, and other Rights, who should lose their leading positions in their home countries because of in-system counter-attack of Euro-optimists.

No wonder that the meeting between the current Federal Chancellor and French leading presidential candidate could not override the follow-up consultation between Macron and Schulz. The case in hand was exchange of support during and following the elections. Thanks to these arrangements, 'Schulz effect', which was discovered by German media - the return of the alternative SPD leader, who jumped into SPD engagement and won broad electoral support, to German policy - will increase manifold after Macron's victory, guaranteed by Brussels.

It should be expected that France and Germany will prove to be only the beginning of Euro-Atlantic 'Reconquista'. Such public slap in the face to the Polish Party 'Law and Justice' as the re-election of Kaczynski's enemy, Donald Tusk, as the European Council President despite a proper hysteria of Warsaw, may indicate that Brussels plans to renew the ruling elite of Poland as well. There will be someone with the right views to replace Victor Orban in Hungary, too. And then the process will be ever accelerating ...
 


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