'Insane' rule leaves mum with 240km school run

Asparagus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Messages
4,823
I will tell you what I dislike most about this story. The use of a sick child to promote a particular position. I have no doubt that the school in question has adequate services. It may even as you claim, been recommended as the best school. Does this mean the child travelling such a long journey every day? Would you put your child through that?

In terms of distance, it is either a 240km school run - as the headline suggests - or it isn't. The article claims the child to have numerous health complications, including autism, a rare chromosome disorder, fluid in her spine, ADHD, limited speech and a hole in her heart. And you say I make an assumption she is not very sick?

As for funding, the HSE funds both schools as does the Dept of Ed. A case could be made to both agencies to provide supports at a local school rather than putting children through such a long, difficult journey. A campaign I would be happy to support.

As campaign to send a child with numerous health complications on a 240km - or even a 120km - bus journey every day I do not support . Not a chance I would put any of my children through this

I hate to see children used in such a way. Shame
The "campaign" is a mothers battle for the best available solution for her child.
The response by the state is not that the journey is not in the childs interest - it is that the other school is nearer.

A team of professionals including psychologists and teachers have said the the net benefit to the child is best serverd by a 60KM 1 way trip rather than a 20KM 1 way trip.

The nearer school will not be upgraded so your support for that campaign is illadvised.
 


Emmaroos

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
20
You should know that the provisions of the EPSEN Act have not been implemented so the IEP issue doesn't arise.

You fail to answer any of my points or those of other posters.

Do you believe that the specialists are advocating that this sick child should be strapped in a school bus for 5 hours a day, 5 days a week for a total journey of over 1,200km? No professional would make such a recommendation

You say mum is campaigning for something that won't cost a penny? What about the cost to the child?

This headline should read ' Insane mum wants child to go on 1,200km school run'
You asked where Department of Education staff had recommended this school for Aife. My answer was in her IEP. Whether the act has been implemented or not doesn't change the fact that all the professionals working with Aife have recommended St Annes.
I'm baffled that you believe you know what is best for a child you have never met.
Nobody involved (NOBODY, not the SENO, not either of the schools, not NEPS) is recommending that she moves out of St Annes to a school that is currently not resourced for her needs. The ONLY thing at issue is how she gets there. The only difficulty is that the wording of the regulations excludes her from qualifying for the bus on a technicality.

I think your comment about her mother is unnecessarily offensive. I'd love to know exactly what you think her motives are?
 

Asparagus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Messages
4,823
I joined because I was horrified with the misinformation provided in the OP and the article. It';s not about a little girl and her bus. Don't be such an idiot. It is about whether a child with numerous health difficulties should be used in this way. Disgusting
That's the problem with people on this site.They just respond to tabloid headlines
Odd that you would only find your way to P.ie on this matter.
It must have been fortuitous to randomly stumble across the site.
I wonder if you have written to the independent with your concerns?
You have some insight into usual behaviour of people on this site - could it be that you are a long time reader first time contributer?
If so odd that nothing in the last while exercised you to contribute before - a childs transport seems an odd thing to get you exercised.

The child is not being "used" - her mother is trying to get whats best for her - but i guess you know better right?
 

Asparagus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Messages
4,823
You asked where Department of Education staff had recommended this school for Aife. My answer was in her IEP. Whether the act has been implemented or not doesn't change the fact that all the professionals working with Aife have recommended St Annes.
I'm baffled that you believe you know what is best for a child you have never met.
Nobody involved (NOBODY, not the SENO, not either of the schools, not NEPS) is recommending that she moves out of St Annes to a school that is currently not resourced for her needs. The ONLY thing at issue is how she gets there. The only difficulty is that the wording of the regulations excludes her from qualifying for the bus on a technicality.

I think your comment about her mother is unnecessarily offensive. I'd love to know exactly what you think her motives are?
jimwin's posts to date seem to be around SEN and HSE issues - another pawn of the establishment i fear...
 

Emmaroos

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
20
The response by the state is not that the journey is not in the childs interest - it is that the other school is nearer.
Exactly.
There is no suggestion at all that the nearer school would be better, equally as good, or even nearly as good for Aife. Simply that it is nearer.
 

Emmaroos

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
20
I will tell you what I dislike most about this story. The use of a sick child to promote a particular position. I have no doubt that the school in question has adequate services. It may even as you claim, been recommended as the best school. Does this mean the child travelling such a long journey every day? Would you put your child through that?

In terms of distance, it is either a 240km school run - as the headline suggests - or it isn't. The article claims the child to have numerous health complications, including autism, a rare chromosome disorder, fluid in her spine, ADHD, limited speech and a hole in her heart. And you say I make an assumption she is not very sick?

As for funding, the HSE funds both schools as does the Dept of Ed. A case could be made to both agencies to provide supports at a local school rather than putting children through such a long, difficult journey. A campaign I would be happy to support.

As campaign to send a child with numerous health complications on a 240km - or even a 120km - bus journey every day I do not support . Not a chance I would put any of my children through this

I hate to see children used in such a way. Shame
Again, I ask, what is it that you and Jimwin think the Mother's agenda is??
That she's putting her daughter through this to get her picture in the papers?
If the situation changed and the school 20km away could educate her daughter as well as the school 60km away, and the transfer could be made without disruption to the therapies and supports that Aife receives from her support team, I am sure her mother would be over the moon.

As for whether I would put my child on a 60km bus journey to school each day, of course I would if I felt that it gave her the best possible chance to succeed in life. And would I drive her there if there was no bus? You bet I would? And would I go to the papers and the radio stations and the courts if I thought that she was being denied something very simple that would make all of our lives easier? Yes to that one too.

Finally, please stop referring to her as a 'sick' child. It is extremely patronising. She may be battling complex disabilities but she is a happy and active little girl.
 

defacto

Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Messages
10
Exactly.
There is no suggestion at all that the nearer school would be better, equally as good, or even nearly as good for Aife. Simply that it is nearer.
I agree. There is no suggestion that the local school is any worse.I have never said the distant school can't meet her needs.

However, I am angry at the claims that the child's best interests are travelling such a long journey every day in a school bus. I know of no specialist that would suggest such a journey. That's all I am saying. I am questioning the motives of wanting a little girl to be put though this. I am saying that the campaign for local resources would be a much better idea and the little girl would get the right service without the ordeal. Do you think that unreasonable? I just don't believe a child such be put through this.

The specialists saying that the school meets her needs and the specialist recommending such a long journey are not the same thing

You believe - very passionately - that this journey is the right thing for a child and is in the child's best interest - I just can't see that
 

Nemi_

Active member
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
252
The only difficulty is that the wording of the regulations excludes her from qualifying for the bus on a technicality.
But the issue is really why this same technicality does not exclude all the others that, reportedly, use a bus that takes them from the same area to the same school.

And there seems to be an accessible appeal possible to the Ombudsman. I can't see this as the kind of issue that's best sorted out on the pages of the Indo, or p.ie.

Good wishes to all, but I think I'll end my involvement in this thread.
 

defacto

Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Messages
10
Again, I ask, what is it that you and Jimwin think the Mother's agenda is??
That she's putting her daughter through this to get her picture in the papers?
If the situation changed and the school 20km away could educate her daughter as well as the school 60km away, and the transfer could be made without disruption to the therapies and supports that Aife receives from her support team, I am sure her mother would be over the moon.

As for whether I would put my child on a 60km bus journey to school each day, of course I would if I felt that it gave her the best possible chance to succeed in life. And would I drive her there if there was no bus? You bet I would? And would I go to the papers and the radio stations and the courts if I thought that she was being denied something very simple that would make all of our lives easier? Yes to that one too.

Finally, please stop referring to her as a 'sick' child. It is extremely patronising. She may be battling complex disabilities but she is a happy and active little girl.
I can only speak for myself.

Is the journey not 240km? How should I refer to the child? As the article does? OK a child with numerous health problems. If Mam wants to put her child through this fair enough. I have nothing to add
 

Asparagus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Messages
4,823
I agree. There is no suggestion that the local school is any worse.I have never said the distant school can't meet her needs.

However, I am angry at the claims that the child's best interests are travelling such a long journey every day in a school bus. I know of no specialist that would suggest such a journey. That's all I am saying. I am questioning the motives of wanting a little girl to be put though this. I am saying that the campaign for local resources would be a much better idea and the little girl would get the right service without the ordeal. Do you think that unreasonable? I just don't believe a child such be put through this.

The specialists saying that the school meets her needs and the specialist recommending such a long journey are not the same thing

You believe - very passionately - that this journey is the right thing for a child and is in the child's best interest - I just can't see that
That is because you, like the SENO are judging the case on bullet points and totally disregarding specialist advice from Psycholgists and teachers.
The specialist has evaluated the entirty of the childs circumstance and finds for the school 60KM away - this includes the knowledge of where the child lives and what is involved in terms of travel.

Local resources simply won't be upgraded in the current environment.

I still don't understand whose motives you are questioning.
 

Asparagus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Messages
4,823
I can only speak for myself.

Is the journey not 240km? How should I refer to the child? As the article does? OK a child with numerous health problems. If Mam wants to put her child through this fair enough. I have nothing to add
The round trip journey for Aife is 120 KM
The journey for her mother includes two extra trips so is 240 KM.
 

Emmaroos

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
20
But the issue is really why this same technicality does not exclude all the others that, reportedly, use a bus that takes them from the same area to the same school.

And there seems to be an accessible appeal possible to the Ombudsman. I can't see this as the kind of issue that's best sorted out on the pages of the Indo, or p.ie.

Good wishes to all, but I think I'll end my involvement in this thread.

Probably because these children have other needs which there is no possibility of the nearer school meeting.
 

Nemi_

Active member
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
252
Probably because these children have other needs which there is no possibility of the nearer school meeting.
Apologies, I know I said I'd stay out (and I now will), but can you see how that statement does not really explain what's different about this case - where, surely, you are saying pretty much the same thing.
 

Emmaroos

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
20
I can only speak for myself.

Is the journey not 240km? How should I refer to the child? As the article does? OK a child with numerous health problems. If Mam wants to put her child through this fair enough. I have nothing to add
The journey distance was clarified in the opening posts by other posters, and later by me, as 60km. Her mother drives that 4 times a day.
Her mother obviously would prefer that the school was at the end of her road but it isn't. If you had anything to add that would show that there was a reason that she shouldn't be let on the bus, but is better off being driven behind the bus by her mother then I am sure you would have lost no time in telling us. I can only conclude that you are starting to see that in this case the Department of Education are on very shaky ground indeed.
 

Emmaroos

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
20
Apologies, I know I said I'd stay out (and I now will), but can you see how that statement does not really explain what's different about this case - where, surely, you are saying pretty much the same thing.
I don't know why the other children are on the bus. Maybe their cases were dealt with using the common sense that has been missing from Aife's case, or maybe they have different specific needs which there is no POSSIBILITY of the nearer school being able to meet.

The facts of Aife's case are fairly simple. There are numerous reasons why her mother, as advised by the professionals who work with Aife, has chosen St Annes for her daughter. Even though a couple of people on this message board have strong opinions that Aife should move school to a nearer school which is not currently resourced to meet her needs and should give up her support team and hope that the waiting lists in Limerick aren't too long, not one of the professionals who work with Aife, all of who know that it involves a 60km journey, believe that this would be in her best interests.

Unfortunately, the TECHNICAL regulations about transport prohibit her from accessing the transport because of the physical existence of a school that is not currently equipped to meet her needs.
 

jimwin

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 7, 2010
Messages
373
The recommendation for St Anne's is in the IEP, produced (as I'm sure you know) by department of Education staff.
As for the appeal, Aife's mother WILL have no choice but to take legal action and demonstrate in court that Aife's basic rights are being denied if common sense can't be applied.
Finally, given the recent announcements of cutbacks in this area, are you really serious that you think she should take her child out of a school where she is making good progress, and away from the support team that currently works with her in the hopes that if she 'campaigns' then the school 20km away will suddenly be given great resources and any waiting lists in Limerick for support services will disappear?! Would you take that kind of gamble with your child's welfare?
At the moment she's campaigning for something that won't cost a penny and the Department of Education don't seem to have much interest in listening.
If the case is indeed how you ave outlined it, I would suggest that the child's mother, or you, call the Children's Ombudsman and hopefully they can take the case. It doesn't cost anything and doesn't involve legal action. There appears to be a precedent in the case as I have outlined earlier. I would imagine the school would support her in her case.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top Bottom