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Interconnector vs Metro = CIE vs RPA


droghedasouth

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I am not the greatest fan of CIE(or should we say Iarnroid Eireann), but the interconnector is a far better project than Metro North.

When it comes to cost benefit analysis with FF, the only question is who will benefit. The Bailey brothers will benefit nicely from Metro North with their very nice proposed development opposite the Pavilions in Swords.
 

riven

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However since both are so slow, the difference is hardly important.
 

tunnel vision

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seabhcan said:
riven said:
However since both are so slow, the difference is hardly important.
I don't think CIE has laid new track since the turf railways of the 1950's. CIE is a world expert in lifting track, however.
I'm not a big fan of many of IE's ways in particular how they treat their passengers. But close look at most of their projects shows them to have been well managed. Don't forget the poor 80s when they brought in the DART on a relative shoestring.
 

fergalr

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A link from Connelly to Heuston already exists...so I view this Interconnector with a little cynicism, although I'm not opposed. The Metro strikes me as being more important to more people and having a bigger impact on traffic, congestion and ease of transport.
 

alonso

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fergalr said:
A link from Connelly to Heuston already exists...so I view this Interconnector with a little cynicism, although I'm not opposed. The Metro strikes me as being more important to more people and having a bigger impact on traffic, congestion and ease of transport.
if so, then you need a bit more research about Dublin Transport. The Interconnector is the silver bullet. It will link up the national rail network while also solving the age old city centre rail congestion issue. however it's been pushed to the back by an incompetent govt.
 

seabhcan

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fergalr said:
A link from Connelly to Heuston already exists...so I view this Interconnector with a little cynicism, although I'm not opposed. The Metro strikes me as being more important to more people and having a bigger impact on traffic, congestion and ease of transport.
The Phenoix park tunnel can't be used to run Kildare-Dublin darts through to the coastal dart lines to make an integrated system.

The Interconnector will also allow trains to cross the liffey at another point, there is currently a bottleneck that limits capacity of the coastal line.
 

fergalr

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Again, there is already a rail link from Heuston to Connelly.
 

newbie12

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droghedasouth said:
I am not the greatest fan of CIE(or should we say Iarnroid Eireann), but the interconnector is a far better project than Metro North.

When it comes to cost benefit analysis with FF, the only question is who will benefit. The Bailey brothers will benefit nicely from Metro North with their very nice proposed development opposite the Pavilions in Swords.
:lol: :lol: If you actually believe that then I really feel sorry for you! Presumably you blame FF for Hiroshima, 9/11 and the death of Christ too.
 

locke

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fergalr said:
Again, there is already a rail link from Heuston to Connelly.
And what happens to the trains that go through it? They get dumped on the Maynooth line, which already has little spare capacity.

The Interconnector essentially doubles the capacity of the lines through the Central Business Dictrict in Dublin

Even as someone who is constantly griping about the lack of investment in public transport in regional cities, I see the Interconnector as an absolutely vital part of the state's infrastructure. Metro North is a different story...
 

alonso

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fergalr said:
Again, there is already a rail link from Heuston to Connelly.
So what? The interconector is not a link from Connolly to Heuston. It doesn't even go the Connolly ffs... Here, read this before continuing

:roll:

http://www.transport21.ie/PROJECTS/HEAV ... ector.html

The Project provides for an Interconnector, largely in tunnel, to connect the existing Northern Line to the lines running out from Heuston Station. New stations will be constructed at Docklands, St. Stephens Green and High St. and these will link with Pearse and Heuston Stations.

The Interconnector is considered to be the vital “backbone” of an integrated public transport system for Dublin and key to optimising the benefits to be delivered through other elements of the 10-year plan. Crucially, it will eliminate many of the existing city centre capacity constraints that are attributed largely to the existing Loop Line connecting Pearse and Connolly Stations. Higher capacity and more frequent services can be provided by allowing diversion of traffic from the existing congested city centre line, and by reconfiguring DART and suburban rail services so that there is through-running of services between different corridors. For example, existing DART services from Bray/Greystones will run on from Pearse Station to Maynooth/Dunboyne, with the option to transfer at Pearse to the Northern DART or outer commuter services.

The Interconnector will thus open up access to the city centre by rail from the range of inner and outer commuter locations. By linking key nodes such as Heuston, Pearse and St. Stephen’s Green, it will also facilitate easy interchange between all rail modes and with bus. Only electrified trains may run in the Interconnector tunnel – this has implications for the extent of the suburban lines that may benefit from through-running and also for the rolling-stock acquisition programme. Currently, it is anticipated that the existing DART line will be extended (through electrification) as far as Balbriggan, the Maynooth line and the Navan line would be fully electrified and that the Kildare line would be electrified as far as Hazlehatch (see electrification of and provision of rolling stock on the Dublin suburban network).




Christ in these internet days, is it too much to ask for people to use Google before rambling?
 

DLR

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Jul 27, 2007
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It is a bit of a joke that CIE and the RPA seemingly operate independent of one another. Dublin is not so big that a few wise heads couldn't figure out a definitive plan for an integrated citywide network, to be constructed in stages, instead of this piecemeal approach by competing parties. We only need one city rail authority to design and build a network The interconnecter should be among the highest priorities as it's pretty much key to the whole thing. But its treated differently than the metro or luas merely because its CIE. The government might as well be burning money with the way this is being done.
 

riven

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Oct 4, 2007
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seabhcan said:
riven said:
However since both are so slow, the difference is hardly important.
I don't think CIE has laid new track since the turf railways of the 1950's. CIE is a world expert in lifting track, however.
Oh I have no problem with CIE etc. As clearly pointed out the dart was brought in quickly. It is just that the decision to start on either project will be so long in coming that a year or so is not going to make much differencei.e.
Highlighting mismanagement.
 

Dublinguy

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May 22, 2007
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seabhcan said:
Its all about turf wars and union control.

FF seem to have a divide and rule policy on transport.

But really, the Luas, Bus and Dart should be under one company.
Or to put it more bluntly they don't have the balls to actually try and fix a problem instead of just wasting money on it...
 

alonso

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Sep 17, 2006
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The Blue Book on the Dublin Transportation Authority was released in 2001. The draft legislation was published in 2005. A Chairperson was appointed last year. Yet we are no closer to the body being set up today, and no one working for any agency has a clue what's going on. A bit like integrated ticketing - weak governance, union lumbering, and a desperate, desperate lack of vision...
 

seabhcan

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alonso said:
The Blue Book on the Dublin Transportation Authority was released in 2001. The draft legislation was published in 2005. A Chairperson was appointed last year. Yet we are no closer to the body being set up today, and no one working for any agency has a clue what's going on. A bit like integrated ticketing - weak governance, union lumbering, and a desperate, desperate lack of vision...
The country's so small, we could easily have a nation wide integrated ticketing system.

This is one area where i'd support privatization. Put the whole ticketing system out to tender. Offer 5c on each passenger journey, and then let that private company force it down the throats of Dublin Bus and CIE.
 

Bray Head

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Sep 29, 2006
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seabhcan said:
alonso said:
The Blue Book on the Dublin Transportation Authority was released in 2001. The draft legislation was published in 2005. A Chairperson was appointed last year. Yet we are no closer to the body being set up today, and no one working for any agency has a clue what's going on. A bit like integrated ticketing - weak governance, union lumbering, and a desperate, desperate lack of vision...
The country's so small, we could easily have a nation wide integrated ticketing system.

This is one area where i'd support privatization. Put the whole ticketing system out to tender. Offer 5c on each passenger journey, and then let that private company force it down the throats of Dublin Bus and CIE.
Too right. Integrated ticketing needs a strong minister ready to stand up to unions and other vested interests and implement a system that will be beneficial to commuters and profitable to operators.

Given we're spending billions on infrastructure improvements it's ironic how cheap the benefits of integrated ticketing would be.

On the main topic I would also have to agree. The RPA was set up specifically because CIE did not have a very good record of project management. Why the interconnector is under their control is beyond me.
 
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