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Interesting analysis of US college student loans programme has lessons for Ireland


patslatt

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See 4 Reasons Why Bill Bennett and http://finance.yahoo.com/news/student-loan-debt-delays-marriage-100500789.html

The US government guarantee of bank student loans gave a massive boost to private colleges charging high fees,many of them marketing their degrees to people with low levels of education. As a result,college dropout rates are high,with high student loan default rates.An important question is whether college dropouts gained some value from their limited educational experience,possibly in enhanced social skills that would make them more employable.

US high school exam results provide a good prediction of college graduation prospects, suggesting that student loans should be restricted to students who have a good chance of graduating.If students think that's unfair,they should resit their high school exams or the equivalent.

The standardised national Irish Leaving Cert results should be an even better prediction of college graduation prospects than the US high school diplomas which vary in quality between schools,never mind US states. This should enable the government to devise a student loan programme that doesn't need much of a subsidy,probably a small scale programme to begin with. In coming years,many families will need the assistance of student loans as it is likely that student registration fees will double or treble in the next five to seven years to finance the funding requirements of Ireland's chronically underfunded third level universities.
 
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cobhguy

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All student loans have done in the USA is pushed in the price of degrees so much that the extra opportunity's afforded from them is becoming nil.

Cost Of College Degree In U.S. Has Increased 1,120 Percent In 30 Years, Report Says

Why would you think that the leaving cert which is only a memory test excluding maths is any better than the sats in the USA at predicting graduation prospects.

Look back to when you where in 6th class and think where all your classmates ended up.
 
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patslatt

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All student loans have done in the USA is pushed in the price of degrees so much that the extra opportunity's afforded from them is becoming nil.

Cost Of College Degree In U.S. Has Increased 1,120 Percent In 30 Years, Report Says

Why would you think that the leaving cert which is only a memory test excluding maths is any better than the sats in the USA at predicting graduation prospects.

Look back to when you where in 6th class and think where all your classmates ended up.
I've seen research that claims high school results are a better predictor than SATS of college graduation,especially high school maths. However,SATS questions are becoming more creative,which may improve prediction.

Excessive fees won't be a problem in Ireland as the government has a veto over fees of state financed colleges and is committed to providing access to qualified students.

I looked at past Leaving Cert honours papers in English and history,subjects that require a high level of creativity.The papers were quite demanding,with questions designed to prevent reliance on rote learning.
 

ManOfReason

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The US College tuition system is the next bubble to bust, and not before time. The rule of thumb is that you should not borrow more than you expect to earn in your first year of work. I have also people suggest the rule: one third borrowed, one third provided by family and one third eared by student while they are in college.

There are two real rip offs in the US system, the first level are the high end liberal colleges that charge Harvard/Yale type prices to the children of rich people who would like their kids to hang out on a nice campus for four years while 'earning' an undemanding feel good 'education'

On the other end of the scale are the sudo-colleges whose only reason for existence is to find poor kids or military veterans who have automatic access to tuition assistance and hover up all that financial aid. There are the kind of Colleges that advertise on radio and the like.

The rest of the system, State Universities or Quality Private Colleges, provide a good education that can be expensive but affordable if combined with scholarships and grants.

The Irish system is very different and a loan system (limited to 5K per year say for tuition) targeted at the current colleges in the CAO system that keep the fees below 5K pa. This could help finance education and give the 3rd level colleges the funding they desperately need to be competitive.
 

Analyzer

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In a country like Ireland, where nepotism and cronyism are rife, the most important feature of any examination system, should be objective nuetrality.

I have heard of a former Education minister, whose neice sent a paper back a second time to be reassessed and who jumped the grade massively. It is not perfect.

But I am concerned that this might be changed for the worse, under the current proposals. Especially with respect to fee paying schools, who are in the business of getting a result.
 

patslatt

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The US College tuition system is the next bubble to bust, and not before time. The rule of thumb is that you should not borrow more than you expect to earn in your first year of work. I have also people suggest the rule: one third borrowed, one third provided by family and one third eared by student while they are in college.

There are two real rip offs in the US system, the first level are the high end liberal colleges that charge Harvard/Yale type prices to the children of rich people who would like their kids to hang out on a nice campus for four years while 'earning' an undemanding feel good 'education'

On the other end of the scale are the sudo-colleges whose only reason for existence is to find poor kids or military veterans who have automatic access to tuition assistance and hover up all that financial aid. There are the kind of Colleges that advertise on radio and the like.

The rest of the system, State Universities or Quality Private Colleges, provide a good education that can be expensive but affordable if combined with scholarships and grants.

The Irish system is very different and a loan system (limited to 5K per year say for tuition) targeted at the current colleges in the CAO system that keep the fees below 5K pa. This could help finance education and give the 3rd level colleges the funding they desperately need to be competitive.
HARVARD'S SELF PERPETUATING MERITOCRATIC ELITE

Most students in Harvard are largely funded by Harvard grants in the university strategy to use its huge trust fund to attract the best and the brightest. The graduates tend to be highly successful because of the initial highly selective system. When they get rich,they contribute generously,keeping the self perpetuating meritocratic elite system going.
 
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ruserious

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I looked at past Leaving Cert honours papers in English and history,subjects that require a high level of creativity.The papers were quite demanding,with questions designed to prevent reliance on rote learning.
I got Higher level A's in both of them and it can most definitly be achieved by creative rote learning. You do not learn essays, you learn facts. Sequence them and be good a creating filler.
That is the success to exams in Ireland.
 

making waves

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patslatt is on one of his privatisation binges - best to hit 'ignore'
 

patslatt

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I got Higher level A's in both of them and it can most definitly be achieved by creative rote learning. You do not learn essays, you learn facts. Sequence them and be good a creating filler.
That is the success to exams in Ireland.
Please demonstrate your technique with a Leaving Cert English question that to the layman seems to require a creative answer. Your creativity probably accounted for most of your marks,not oxymoronic creative rote learning.
 

ruserious

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Please demonstrate your technique with a Leaving Cert English question that to the layman seems to require a creative answer. Your creativity probably accounted for most of your marks,not oxymoronic creative rote learning.
With English, you need to learn the way you answer the question to garner most marks. If you have a clear defined path to answering with some quotes and a bit of analysis backed up you will go a long way to getting top marks. You don't actually need to learn much.
 

patslatt

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With English, you need to learn the way you answer the question to garner most marks. If you have a clear defined path to answering with some quotes and a bit of analysis backed up you will go a long way to getting top marks. You don't actually need to learn much.
See http://www.examinations.ie/archive/exampapers/2012/LC002ALP200EV.pdf English paper 2012.

I don't see how mechanical techniques could help much in answering these creative,unpredictable questions compared to plenty of practice in essay writing in school years.
 

ruserious

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“Rich’s poetry communicates powerful feelings through thought-provoking images
and symbols.”
Write your response to this statement with reference to the poems by Adrienne Rich on
your course.

You would have 'studied' her poems beforehand so you would simply write an essay as follows.

Par1 - Why you like her use of images and symbols - what stands out. (Can be done on the day i.e. Bullsh1t).
Par2 - Poem 1. Pick an image and symbol from a poem (easy to remember) and write why it impressed you. Use some poetic techniques such as tranquility and other such nonsense.
Par3 - As above.
Par4 - As above.
Par5 - Bring it all together by pointing out emerging trends in her use of images and symbols across all her poetry (more nonsense you can come up with on the day).

Conclude with a synopsis of what you already wrote and highlight any grievances.




You can do this pretty much all on the day once you have rote learned a dozen quotes and examined briefly some poetic techniques.
 

storybud1

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Edison,Ford,(couple of years in school) Gates - college drop out.

Branson - wiki paste - "He then attended Stowe School until the age of sixteen. Branson has dyslexia and had poor academic performance as a student, but later discovered his ability to connect with others" he has an estimated net worth of US$4.6 billion.

The older you get the more you realise attitude, drive, ambition coupled with cop-on is far more productive than wasting about 10 years of your life in school learning rubbish you will never use again.

If you have kids teach them to go out and have a go, forget Peig Sayers and tech drawing FFS, pointless waste of time, better spent teaching IT programming and philosophy.
 

eoghanacht

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Good news and the bonus is it p!sses off the likes of storybud and radix, which is always a good thing.

Good Christians an all.
 

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