Interesting chart comparing social spending in key categories by country. Ireland is "no country for old men" .

patslatt

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Interesting chart comparing social spending in key categories by country. Ireland is "no country for old men" .

See What Governments Spend on Social Assistance - The Big Picture

Ireland's social spending is very low for old age assistance,especially compared to the USA, Austria, Denmark and Germany, and was a bit lower than the UK*. Ireland is "no country for old men" (and old women).

Irish figures on social health care spending are low. They exclude private sector spending which raises total spending as a percent of the economy to the same levels as France and the Netherlands.

Ireland's spending on disability looks reasonable. There seems to be a plague of disability in Scandinavia or a soft touch government response.

Surprisingly, social housing spending is paltry or non-existent in most countries except the UK.

THe new Irish government may embark on a spending spree on social housing because of publicity given to persistent homelessness in Dublin. But that may be the wrong solution.

As societies become richer, the working class tend to move out of traditional working class communities, leaving the poor behind. This can lead to social housing ghettos of the poor like the Banlieus of Paris full of ethnic muslims and socially excluded "sink estates" in the UK.

Maybe it is better to spend on generous rent allowances that give the poorest people a choice to live in socially mixed communities where their children have an opportunity for a good education. In Dublin, the rent allowances are no longer adequate due to rocketing rents which reflect a failure of the national government to tackle the councils on NIMBY regulations that hobble housing building. The government's planned spending on social housing is likely to be far less effective than would removing Dublin councils' powers over housing planning permissions.

*PS Post 10 below points out that Ireland's relatively low percentage of the age group 65 and over makes the Irish spending on old age assistance look low. Ireland's percentage is 12.6%, compared to 18.3% in Austria, 18.2% in Denmark,20.8% in Germany and 17.5% in the UK. Based on those figures alone, that suggests those countries' spending per capita on old age assistance would be higher than Ireland's respectively by 45% (Austria), 44%, 65% and 39%. Those countries also have earlier retirement ages than Ireland AFAIK.
 
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Harmonica

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Old Age - I presume other countries spend extra on supports as out state pension seems like its pretty good. Also until many european countries where lots of people expect to rely entirely on state pensions we actively encourage private pensions - I would expect a lot more private pensions here than say France.

Housing - If social housing demand is say 100K units we we built them all in the next 3 years. Can we reduce spending to nominal level then? Unless the population is increasing why would we need to build more of this type of housing? IMO all social housing should be apartments in cities, if you are going to get big housing discount then you don't get a house. The real problem is housing is too expensive to build buy & rent.
 

APettigrew92

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See What Governments Spend on Social Assistance - The Big Picture

Ireland's social spending is very low for old age assistance,especially compared to the USA, Austria, Denmark and Germany, and was a bit lower than the UK. Ireland is "no country for old men" (and old women).

Irish figures on social health care spending are low.

THe new Irish government may embark on a spending spree on social housing because of publicity given to persistent homelessness in Dublin. But that may be the wrong solution.

As societies become richer, the working class tend to move out of traditional working class communities, leaving the poor behind. This can lead to social housing ghettos of the poor like the Banlieus of Paris full of ethnic muslims and socially excluded "sink estates" in the UK.

Maybe it is better to spend on generous rent allowances that give the poorest people a choice to live in socially mixed communities where their children have an opportunity for a good education. In Dublin, the rent allowances are no longer adequate due to rocketing rents which reflect a failure of the national government to tackle the councils on NIMBY regulations that hobble housing building. The government's planned spending on social housing is likely to be far less effective than would removing Dublin councils' powers over housing planning permissions.
Ireland is no country for young men either. In fact, I am often confused as to who this country is for.

As for some of your suppositions above. I don't believe you quite attack the definition of "working class flight from their neighbourhoods" quite correctly.

Working-class neighbourhoods are seeing their property values skyrocket. I have no chance of ever owning a house in my local area at current housing prices. An area which, twenty years ago, people couldn't escape from quick enough. Now we have this new "gentrification" - some cheap term thrown around by our supposed social betters in order to remind us that, although they cohabit with us, they do it by choice. Right. :roll:

We had a Government that declared war on the poorest of society. We reelected them.

How people expect the status quo to change when they don't change their vote baffles me.
 

Kevin Parlon

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Ireland is no country for young men either.
True.

We had a Government that declared war on the poorest of society. We reelected them.
Not true. The war part.

How people expect the status quo to change when they don't change their vote baffles me.
That's true. You vote the same parties you'll get the same policies more or less. But your point presupposes there's a viable alternative to the status quo. The cranks on the fringes are not a viable alternative.
 

dresden8

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True.



Not true. The war part.



That's true. You vote the same parties you'll get the same policies more or less. But your point presupposes there's a viable alternative to the status quo. The cranks on the fringes are not a viable alternative.
The electorate rejected the status quo.

The status quo joined together to frustrate the electorate.

A vote for FF was a vote Inda? Me bollix.

Hopefully they will pay for it.
 

Kevin Parlon

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Trainwreck

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See What Governments Spend on Social Assistance - The Big Picture

Ireland's social spending is very low for old age assistance,especially compared to the USA, Austria, Denmark and Germany, and was a bit lower than the UK. Ireland is "no country for old men" (and old women).

Irish figures on social health care spending are low. They exclude private sector spending which raises total spending as a percent of the economy to the same levels as France and the Netherlands.

Ireland's spending on disability looks reasonable. There seems to be a plague of disability in Scandinavia or a soft touch government response.

Surprisingly, social housing spending is paltry or non-existent in most countries except the UK.

THe new Irish government may embark on a spending spree on social housing because of publicity given to persistent homelessness in Dublin. But that may be the wrong solution.

As societies become richer, the working class tend to move out of traditional working class communities, leaving the poor behind. This can lead to social housing ghettos of the poor like the Banlieus of Paris full of ethnic muslims and socially excluded "sink estates" in the UK.

Maybe it is better to spend on generous rent allowances that give the poorest people a choice to live in socially mixed communities where their children have an opportunity for a good education. In Dublin, the rent allowances are no longer adequate due to rocketing rents which reflect a failure of the national government to tackle the councils on NIMBY regulations that hobble housing building. The government's planned spending on social housing is likely to be far less effective than would removing Dublin councils' powers over housing planning permissions.
You dipstick Pat.

Those are per capita data. We spend less on old age because per capita we have few people of old age than elsewhere.
 

Orbit v2

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THe new Irish government may embark on a spending spree on social housing because of publicity given to persistent homelessness in Dublin. But that may be the wrong solution.
Lessons should certainly be learned from past mistakes (here and elsewhere). Part of it could involve the state building social housing but selling off (or renting) some of the units at market value.

I assume the chart in the OP doesn't account for demographic differences between countries as well. So, it might not be a great basis for comparing spending on old age.
 
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feedmelies

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Ireland has a younger population than most developed countries due to our higher birthrates. As such the proportion of older people is lower, and we would be expected to spend less on old age related social spending.
 

Trainwreck

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Ireland has a younger population than most developed countries due to our higher birthrates. As such the proportion of older people is lower, and we would be expected to spend less on old age related social spending.
File:population age structure by major age groups, 2004 and 2014 (% of the total population) YB15.png - Statistics Explained

Some notable comparisons of the % over 64:

Ireland 13%
Italy 21%
Spain 19%
Germany 21%
France 18%
EU-28 19%


Look at the Czech Republic - about the same amount spent per capita on old age, but around 50% more pensioners per capita.

You should expect around 30%-35% LESS per capita to be spent on old age in Ireland compared with EU in general and an even greater disparity in comparison with other countries.


 

SeanieFitz

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If one looks at how traditional social housing estates, provided by local authorities or voluntary housing bodies, evolve over the decades you will notice that communities develop, a social mix is established.

Local authority tenants should continue to be encouraged to purchase their homes, if encourages a sense of responsibility towards maintaining their homes, encourages community spirit and pride in their locality. to put simply, LA estates that includes a mix of owned and rented properties, usually are nicer places to live a raise a family. Obviously access to public transport, schools, shops, amenities, sports facilities also have a strong influence.
Many "older" LA estates (built in 70's) are now very much sought after as places live, they are often built to a high standard also,
 

Franzoni

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True.

Not true. The war part.

That's true. You vote the same parties you'll get the same policies more or less. But your point presupposes there's a viable alternative to the status quo. The cranks on the fringes are not a viable alternative.
A former FF politician a few weeks back spoke about FF-FG-Lab rolling up their sleeves and 'reclaiming' working class area's from SF and as you term the 'cranks on the fringes'

The is a clear admission from people in the heart of the political establishment of abandonment of these area's for decades...

It also has cost us God only knows how much in social and economic terms...many of the problems we face today could of been nipped in the bud much earlier if the people you seem to think have all the answers had of listened to the people in these communities instead of making out like bandits....

Instead as per usual many within the establishment had their eye on their wallets and how much they could gouge out of them and out of the public purse...........there are also allegations of collusion with criminality by some in the establishment made on this forum and elsewhere that have devastated these communities that bears further scrutiny and investigation....


Until some of these fundamental issues are addressed the problems the political system is facing into will only get worse...i would suggest the 40% of the untapped vote we hear about in every election isn't in area's who enjoy a good quality of life but in urban and rural area's ignored by the mainstream.......this potential vote base is beyond FF-FG-Lab for the foreseeable future.....
 

Fractional Reserve

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Ireland is no country for young men either. In fact, I am often confused as to who this country is for.

As for some of your suppositions above. I don't believe you quite attack the definition of "working class flight from their neighbourhoods" quite correctly.

Working-class neighbourhoods are seeing their property values skyrocket. I have no chance of ever owning a house in my local area at current housing prices. An area which, twenty years ago, people couldn't escape from quick enough. Now we have this new "gentrification" - some cheap term thrown around by our supposed social betters in order to remind us that, although they cohabit with us, they do it by choice. Right. :roll:

We had a Government that declared war on the poorest of society. We reelected them.

How people expect the status quo to change when they don't change their vote baffles me.
its a great country for civil and public servants always has been .
 

Franzoni

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Ireland is no country for young men either. In fact, I am often confused as to who this country is for.

As for some of your suppositions above. I don't believe you quite attack the definition of "working class flight from their neighbourhoods" quite correctly.

Working-class neighbourhoods are seeing their property values skyrocket. I have no chance of ever owning a house in my local area at current housing prices. An area which, twenty years ago, people couldn't escape from quick enough. Now we have this new "gentrification" - some cheap term thrown around by our supposed social betters in order to remind us that, although they cohabit with us, they do it by choice. Right. :roll:

We had a Government that declared war on the poorest of society. We reelected them.

How people expect the status quo to change when they don't change their vote baffles me.
There has been a call by several posters on this forum for CPO's or higher levels of property tax to be used to force older people who they deem to be not using their property to it's fullest potential out of their homes for the "gentrification" to continue... as mortgages are beyond the reach of many now unless you have wealthy parents or a really well paying job........this in a country where the OECD in 2014 said we had the lowest wage economy after the USA

The gas thing is if anyone from the left suggested such a practice this it would be called communism.....:D...that's what happens when former Marxists take over a middle class party.... the ideology gets all fúcked up..........:lol:

Maybe some of these posters when they read this who suggest such a course of action can tell the rest of us where they want all the undermensch and the elderly to relocate and downsize to...?

Lets create a few more ghettos in ghost estates in rural Ireland ....no doubt that will end well........:D
 

patslatt

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Ireland is no country for young men either. In fact, I am often confused as to who this country is for.

As for some of your suppositions above. I don't believe you quite attack the definition of "working class flight from their neighbourhoods" quite correctly.

Working-class neighbourhoods are seeing their property values skyrocket. I have no chance of ever owning a house in my local area at current housing prices. An area which, twenty years ago, people couldn't escape from quick enough. Now we have this new "gentrification" - some cheap term thrown around by our supposed social betters in order to remind us that, although they cohabit with us, they do it by choice. Right. :roll:

We had a Government that declared war on the poorest of society. We reelected them.

How people expect the status quo to change when they don't change their vote baffles me.
Limerick's crime problems are attributed to working class departure over a generation from the poorest areas of the city.
 

patslatt

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Old Age - I presume other countries spend extra on supports as out state pension seems like its pretty good. Also until many european countries where lots of people expect to rely entirely on state pensions we actively encourage private pensions - I would expect a lot more private pensions here than say France.

Housing - If social housing demand is say 100K units we we built them all in the next 3 years. Can we reduce spending to nominal level then? Unless the population is increasing why would we need to build more of this type of housing? IMO all social housing should be apartments in cities, if you are going to get big housing discount then you don't get a house. The real problem is housing is too expensive to build buy & rent.
Relatively few Irish have good private pensions but many own a family house, with very high rates of home ownership.
 

dizillusioned

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A friend is a care assistant in the community. Unless you have family looking after you in Ireland there is no help for elderly people in this country.

she reports many cases to her superiors, but nothing is done. Elderly people left with no food, no one to assist them. She goes back to them after her allotted time to help them, being in many cases the only people that they see.

State pension is one thing, state assistance is another.
 

APettigrew92

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Relatively few Irish have good private pensions but many own a family house, with very high rates of home ownership.
Back when the Councils took a direct role in allowing owners to buy their homes.

Ever since the 90s the Council's only activity has been to put up people in social housing who have either no ability or no desire to buy the house outright. That's contributing to the rent bubble nowadays.

Another great example of pinheaded Irish policy. Sure, let the private sector take control of housing. That never leads to a property bubble. They just want an equitable price. :roll:

Stoneybatter is undergoing a process of "gentrification" - the amount of small businesses with names nobody can pronounce have skyrocketed. Shame the "locals" cannot afford them.

Home ownership is going to become a heriditary title. The practice of the 20-30 year olds of this generation doing anything but renting is here to stay.
 

irish_bob

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Limerick's crime problems are attributed to working class departure over a generation from the poorest areas of the city.
i thought it was down to an influx of tinker crime families from the uk over a relatively short period of time
 


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