Ireland 1940 - A snapshot in Time

PBP voter

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That's the FG reading of the situation.

The real reading is that FF mess up after spending too long in government; FG are then elected by default in the hope that they will improve matters; although they have never been trusted with a majority.

Once in government, FG then makes life so unpleasant for those at the bottom of the pile that a great many of them emigrate. As the government doesn't have to pay for their upkeep there is a little more money for those who remain. Still, many of those who remain are in pretty dire straits, and FG loses support.

Having used emigration & austerity to "solve" the crisis, Irish society is horrified with FG and turfs them out of government again.

In 2016, FF had not managed to recover from their major fúckup with the property bubble, and FG did, for the first time ever, return to government; but having lost one third of their seats in the Dáil. In other words, the electorate did not see FG as having solved the problems caused by FF (cheered on by FG and Lab) during the property bubble.
The bottom of the pile didn't emigrate.
The bottom of the pile are those who left school early and have no skills.

It was educated people(both academic and vocational) who left.
 


sadmal

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The banning of corporal punishment in 1982 barely gets a look in in terms of seminal shifts in this country, but for me, it should be at the very top of any list

Even away from the sex abuse, the idea that we allowed teachers beat children as young as 4 with straps and canes up till 36 years ago is horrifying.
Imagine this, there are people still teaching who beat the ************************e out of children with the full approval of the state.
I can only imagine the guilt and remorse some of these feel and wonder what in name of Christ were they thinking of.

I had a great Latin teacher who leathered us in 1st year
Eased off in 2nd and stopped altogether in 3rd
I can only imagine he had come to the very late conclusion that it was barbaric

Anyone ever have a decent conversation with a teacher who walloped on what they now feel?
Would you believe that the teacher's unions were opposed to the banning at the time? Not that they like to be reminded of that nowadays of course.
 

Sweet Darling

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That's the FG reading of the situation.

The real reading is that FF mess up after spending too long in government; FG are then elected by default in the hope that they will improve matters; although they have never been trusted with a majority.

Once in government, FG then makes life so unpleasant for those at the bottom of the pile that a great many of them emigrate. As the government doesn't have to pay for their upkeep there is a little more money for those who remain. Still, many of those who remain are in pretty dire straits, and FG loses support.

Having used emigration & austerity to "solve" the crisis, Irish society is horrified with FG and turfs them out of government again.

In 2016, FF had not managed to recover from their major fúckup with the property bubble, and FG did, for the first time ever, return to government; but having lost one third of their seats in the Dáil. In other words, the electorate did not see FG as having solved the problems caused by FF (cheered on by FG and Lab) during the property bubble.
I thing you will find it was people with Qualifications that managed to get in to other counties, hardly the bottom of the pile.
 

Sweet Darling

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Like a lot of his ilk he was most probably a pervert. A huge amount of "Christian" Brothers were.
Men of poor families became Christian brothers. the children of wealthy families where allowed to become priests.

The Christian brothers were in essencs lower class scum.
 

Sweet Darling

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I don't mean to drag us off topic. My point is when the modern state can explain away major crises, it's not unimaginable to see why the state back then allowed things to be so bad; turning a blind eye to the church, leaving those in the slums to it.



Propagandist bull************************.
The majority, by far, of people suffering under the housing crisis are tax paying workers. Blaming dole spongers and single mothers on the one hand and FG patting itself on the back for high employment and a campaign against dole cheats on the other is hypocritical apologist bollocks. We've record breaking levels of child homelessness in 2018 ffs. 'We'd a better quality of poor back then'? You Fine Gael shill merchant.
The councils want out of social housing due to the high numbers of scrounger who will not pay their ridiculously low rent and the inability to get rid of them.

PS

Scum Fein run Dublin City council. just saying.
 

Sweet Darling

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Maybe it was; but a closer reading of the facts shows that the worst emigration happened in the 1950s, 1980s and 2010s.
What all of these periods have in common is that they featured FG austerity governments.
Who were trying to sort out the mess left by FF
 

Sweet Darling

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800 bodies still down a hole in Tuam says otherwise. If 800 bodies were found in a hole in Bosnia or Rwanda international bodies would have been called in.

The fact that the bodies still lie in that hole shows how little we have progressed. Still in reverence to the CC.
Did not bother your father, Grandfather, Great grandfather, Great uncles, Aunties etc when all this was gone on
So why should it bother you.?????????????????????

Maybe you should like all the other O'Leftie's first apologize for YOUR families standing around looking the other way.
 
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meriwether

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I was given lines to do in national school because of some piece of homework I hadn't done.

I refused to do them because I'd genuinely forgotten to do the homework.

The next day, the amount of lines was doubled, then doubled again and again as I repeatedly refused to do them, until the total amount of lines I was supposed to do was 1,000.

At this point, the teacher, otherwise a decent man, snapped and decided to use the stick on me, the stick being wrapped in tape to make sure it stung.

I don't have any ill-will towards the man, but I still can't understand what made an adult think it was a good idea to hit a child in his care.

My parents were asked to come in after this and all the adults agreed that I was very stubborn and deserved my punishment, although at this point the lines were waived.

How weird and cruel we mainly were to each other, especially to anyone weaker than us.
You deserved it.
 

JohnD66

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A few observations: first regarding 'illegitimate' children, was Ireland really so different from elsewhere at the time?

I'd imagine attitudes were similar elsewhere at the time. Before independence, such women usually ended up in the workhouse. Maybe the religious run institutions were worse, more judgmental, but not by much I'd wager.

Regarding orphans, we know that many of the industrial schools were extremely unpleasant places to be. But this too is not unique.

In Britain as late the late 1940s, orphans were being sent -essentially transported like 19th century criminals - to Australia, where many of them, like their unfortunate counterparts in Ireland, were abused physically, sexually and otherwise.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...e-our-hearts-to-see-them-go-away-1914210.html

Ten thousand children were "expelled" to Australia between l947-l967, and last week, Gordon Brown offered a formal apology on behalf of the Government, following the Australian government's long-awaited apology last year.
Regarding corporal punishment in schools, again, here we were absolutely no different from our contemporaries. It was outlawed in Ireland in 1982, in France it was never banned, in the UK in 1986 in Germany in 1993.

So although I don't share the nostalgia of other posters for a Catholic ruled Ireland (or however we want to phrase it), I do think that the degree of fault in our recent past is greatly exaggerated these days. Ireland is more similar than different to most nearby countries.
 

Barroso

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How many times have FF fecked up the country?
The Civil war
FF isolationist and protectionism in the 30s 40s 50s
FF economic treason of 77
FF economic treason of the 2000s
FF didn't exist at the time of the civil war you eejit.
FG was in government from 1948-51 and 1954-57, and ensured the worst emigration in the history of the state.
It was the Lemass government that turned things around by allowing US firms to set up here.


The bottom of the pile didn't emigrate.
The bottom of the pile are those who left school early and have no skills.

It was educated people(both academic and vocational) who left.
I thing you will find it was people with Qualifications that managed to get in to other counties, hardly the bottom of the pile.
Your sense of history is rather poor.
In the 50s it was mostly unskilled labourers that emigrated directly out of primary school.
In the 80s the general level of education had increased, but London was choc-a-bloc with thousands upon thousands of young Irish people with no more than leaving cert standard, as well as a great many who didn't make it that far.
The most recent exiling of hundreds of thousands of young Irish people by FG and their pinko acolytes included many with 3rd level education, but also a great many without a degree.

All this goes to show merely that educational standards have increased over the last 70 years. The children of the well-off are the least likely to emigrate - and if they do, in the infamous words of Michael Noonan, it is a lifestyle choice.

That said, there has always been middle class emigration from Ireland - back as far as the dark ages when Irish monks set up monasteries across Europe.
In the 18th century, the native middle classes were in demand as officers in the Irish Brigades across Europe and throughout the Spanish empire in the West Indies and in central & southern America. This continued into the 19th century.

In the 19th & 20th centuries the same class found employment in the British colonial service and in similar organisations organisations in the empire's successor states.

Today they get jobs in the financial services sector in London and NY.

This does not change the fact that most Irish people who emigrate are from lower down the social scale.
 

midlander12

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A few observations: first regarding 'illegitimate' children, was Ireland really so different from elsewhere at the time?

I'd imagine attitudes were similar elsewhere at the time. Before independence, such women usually ended up in the workhouse. Maybe the religious run institutions were worse, more judgmental, but not by much I'd wager.

Regarding orphans, we know that many of the industrial schools were extremely unpleasant places to be. But this too is not unique.

In Britain as late the late 1940s, orphans were being sent -essentially transported like 19th century criminals - to Australia, where many of them, like their unfortunate counterparts in Ireland, were abused physically, sexually and otherwise.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...e-our-hearts-to-see-them-go-away-1914210.html



Regarding corporal punishment in schools, again, here we were absolutely no different from our contemporaries. It was outlawed in Ireland in 1982, in France it was never banned, in the UK in 1986 in Germany in 1993.

So although I don't share the nostalgia of other posters for a Catholic ruled Ireland (or however we want to phrase it), I do think that the degree of fault in our recent past is greatly exaggerated these days. Ireland is more similar than different to most nearby countries.
Actually the English children were being sent to Australia up to the 1960's, as your link itself states. The UK also had mother-and-baby homes up to I believe the 1970's, run by both the RCC and the Church of England. I have watched Australian 'Long Lost Family' programmes where it's obvious there were such homes there until the 1960's at least.

None of this remotely justifies what went on in Ireland, and I also suspect the per capita numbers in these dumps were higher in Ireland than elsewhere. The era of sexual repression also continued in Ireland to some extent into the 1980's, much later than elsewhere. However, the notion that we were somehow uniquely cruel, vicious and uncaring is plain silly.

This 'uniquely awful banana republic' notion seems to have carried over these days into media coverage of healthcare and housing issues, where you would be forgiven for thinking Ireland was the only country in the world where health screening was less than accurate, where people had difficulty accessing medical records, where medical negligence was denied, and where homeless people existed.
 

JohnD66

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Actually the English children were being sent to Australia up to the 1960's, as your link itself states. The UK also had mother-and-baby homes up to I believe the 1970's, run by both the RCC and the Church of England. I have watched Australian 'Long Lost Family' programmes where it's obvious there were such homes there until the 1960's at least.

None of this remotely justifies what went on in Ireland, and I also suspect the per capita numbers in these dumps were higher in Ireland than elsewhere. The era of sexual repression also continued in Ireland to some extent into the 1980's, much later than elsewhere. However, the notion that we were somehow uniquely cruel, vicious and uncaring is plain silly.

This 'uniquely awful banana republic' notion seems to have carried over these days into media coverage of healthcare and housing issues, where you would be forgiven for thinking Ireland was the only country in the world where health screening was less than accurate, where people had difficulty accessing medical records, where medical negligence was denied, and where homeless people existed.
That pretty much what I was getting at all right. There's a a very simplistic popular story about this these days.
 


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