Ireland has 7th highest 3rd level fees in the world



Spanner Island

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What's the point of this thread?

3rd level should never have been 'free' in the first place... imo.

The 'registration fee' has helped limit the damage... but is just the usual cynical bullsh!t politicians dream up in the expectation that people are too stupid to know what it really is... (fees by another name)...

Regardless the 'registration fee' is probably still too cheap.

All that 'free' 3rd level education has delivered is a lack of funding and the slide of Irish 3rd level institutions down the global rankings over 20 years since Niamh Breathnach introduced this initiative...

And there's no quick fix to 20 years of underfunding either...
 

gleeful

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... not to mention that having people pay the actual costs of their education would dramatically reduce the dropout rates.
This is untrue. Dropouts go up when people can't afford the fees.

What should be done is that a certain (high) number of places in technical courses should be free, and nonsense 'arts' course should be charged for.
 

silverharp

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when kids are born open an account and put the child benefit in , that gives you nearly 30K when they leave schools.
 

gleeful

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when kids are born open an account and put the child benefit in , that gives you nearly 30K when they leave schools.
The biggest issue here is the problems caused by turning students into customers. I worked in the UK university sector around the time that fees came in - there was a dramatic drop in standards. The philosophy of "the customer is always right" doesn't work well when the customer is also the student.
 

General Urko

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And when you factor in cost of accommodation, we would be higher than 7th!
You would have to question the value of third level education here in terms of people getting jobs out of it!
In a highly classist society like ours, what you know is very much a secondary consideration to who you know!
We have a hugely paradoxical situation in that we have people who are educated to masters levels working on assembly lines and stacking shelves while at the same time we have huge numbers of Irish People at a level where they are just about B2 fluent in English, sucking the public tit dry as 'public servants'!
 

Trainwreck

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Still not high enough. The proliferation of crap dressed up as "third level education" at massive taxpayer cost is but another thing strangling our country.
 

gleeful

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And when you factor in cost of accommodation, we would be higher than 7th!
You would have to question the value of third level education here in terms of people getting jobs out of it!
In a highly classist society like ours, what you know is very much a secondary consideration to who you know!
We have a hugely paradoxical situation in that we have people who are educated to masters levels working on assembly lines and stacking shelves while at the same time we have huge numbers of Irish People at a level where they are just about B2 fluent in English, sucking the public tit dry as 'public servants'!
The value is based on what course you are doing. Being one of 600 social care students in a class in a regional IT is quite pointless for around 95% of students. Doing a 4 year engineering or science degree will get you a job almost by default.
 

Erudite Caveman

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We have a bloated 3rd level education system - effectively you've had 2 decades of empire building by means of creating more courses for more students with the primary aim of getting a bigger budget. That's where the pressure on fees comes from.
 

gleeful

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We have a bloated 3rd level education system - effectively you've had 2 decades of empire building by means of creating more courses for more students with the primary aim of getting a bigger budget.
One solution would be to use the current average income of graduates from each course to decide how many free (ie. tax funded) places in each course.

So if the average income of arts graduates is, say 35k, then fund x places. If the average for engineers is, say, 75k, then fund 2x places.

Right now, there are around 10 times more arts places than engineering places in Irish uni courses.
 

Sister Mercedes

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Don't waste your money getting an education unless you want to emigrate. It costs just 60 euro to change your name by deed poll. So just change your surname, depending on where in Ireland you want to work. If it's the law profession, then Hardiman, McDowell, Finlay, Geoghegan, O'Higgins etc should do the trick. If it's Montrose, then Andrews or Ryan would be good choices. If it's politics you fancy, keep an eye on any TD's looking a bit sickly and change your name to theirs.

If you can afford it, a golf club membership would be a good career investment. That'll cost you as much as university fees but you'll get more fresh air.

Changing name by deed poll
 

brughahaha

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Our education subsidy payment pyramid is totally the wrong way around .....Universities get most with primary getting least ... should be the other way around ...that it isnt is another mystery about who the Labour party really represent ...Actually , no mystery, the middle class chattering classes are where all their policies are aimed .........
 

gleeful

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Don't waste your money getting an education unless you want to emigrate. It costs just 60 euro to change your name by deed poll. So just change your surname, depending on where in Ireland you want to work. If it's the law profession, then Hardiman, McDowell, Finlay, Geoghegan, O'Higgins etc should do the trick. If it's Montrose, then Andrews or Ryan would be good choices. If it's politics you fancy, keep an eye on any TD's looking a bit sickly and change your name to theirs.

If you can afford it, a golf club membership would be a good career investment. That'll cost you as much as university fees but you'll get more fresh air.

Changing name by deed poll
Wot?
 

silverharp

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The biggest issue here is the problems caused by turning students into customers. I worked in the UK university sector around the time that fees came in - there was a dramatic drop in standards. The philosophy of "the customer is always right" doesn't work well when the customer is also the student.
looking at the US its the student with the student loan that is correct. There are too many kids going to college and doing sub standard degrees. governments think its cool to have more people in college instead of looking at primary and secondary which is less sexy
 

gleeful

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looking at the US its the student with the student loan that is correct. There are too many kids going to college and doing sub standard degrees. governments think its cool to have more people in college instead of looking at primary and secondary which is less sexy
The US and UK systems are largely a scam. In the US, the student loan system is bonkers. The banks have to lend to you, by law, without regard for what you wish to study. So someone walking in wanting to take a 200k loan to study Klingon at Utah University of Fakeology gets their loan the same as someone studying engineering at Harvard. Student loan debt is special too - its legally impossible to default on it, ever. Oh, and if you miss a payment the interest rate 'reverts' to around 9%. I know a US graduate who will be paying 2k per month interest forever on her student debt because she once missed a payment (She says she made the payment but the company didn't file it on time - its in their interest to make mistakes).

In the UK there are entirely fake colleges set up solely to scam the loan system. They cruse around offering cash to homeless people to sign up as a student, then they get the fees. The 'students' dont ever need to pay it back as their incomes will never exceed the threshold.
 

Roberto Jordan

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The US and UK systems are largely a scam. In the US, the student loan system is bonkers. The banks have to lend to you, by law, without regard for what you wish to study. So someone walking in wanting to take a 200k loan to study Klingon at Utah University of Fakeology gets their loan the same as someone studying engineering at Harvard. Student loan debt is special too - its legally impossible to default on it, ever. Oh, and if you miss a payment the interest rate 'reverts' to around 9%. I know a US graduate who will be paying 2k per month interest forever on her student debt because she once missed a payment (She says she made the payment but the company didn't file it on time - its in their interest to make mistakes).

In the UK there are entirely fake colleges set up solely to scam the loan system. They cruse around offering cash to homeless people to sign up as a student, then they get the fees. The 'students' dont ever need to pay it back as their incomes will never exceed the threshold.

You are interchanging the federal and private student loan systems in the US>

In my view a public ally backed student loan system is a perfectly reasonable means of funding a third and fourth level education system.

Certainly in my case as the child of the squeezed middle it is preferable to the irish system whereby I was dependent on limited parental support, my own earnings and private loans to pay for my expenses - a fact the impacted my decision making significantly ( turned out ok in the end but thats not the point, right). The fact my father was a wage earner , rather than being unemployed ( either actually or only "officially" ) or self-employed, meant I could have starved and never received penny in support. So my parents paid my registration ( think it was a few hundred pounds a year in the 90s') and gave me 20 pounds a week, my summer earnings went on rent and my borrowings on books, food and socializing.
I paid my loans off to the wonderful folks at AIB 5 years after I started working, at which point I was able to consider buying a car........( not before I had to get my license , because ireland doesnt do "divers ed" for kids of parents who cant pay 1000 euro to insure them )...I f I had gone to an "in state" school in the US or ad the academic prowess to get into a reputable private college ( bragging here but would likely have been in the mix...) I would have got a partial scholarship at least, and at 90's fees levels ended up with maybe $20k more debt at most - not good I accept but not a million miles away....

The problem in the US are the exorbitant tuition fees which have grown massively disproportionately in the last 30 years. Some of the fee inflation is a direct result of bad government ( reduction in state and federal support) but some of it is also due to the greed of the institutions themselves.

Unarguably the US has , in terms of quality , scope and resources the finest third / fourth level system in the world - where it falls down is access - rather like health care ......the difference being the US has never had a good health care system but had, I truly believe, the greatest third level system in human history in the post WWII years - with any one of requisite ability able to go to the worlds finest institutions for a very marginal amount.

However one observation, in recent years the government has been stamping down on private colleges in particular but also the community college system from encouraging students to pursue quasi=vocational academic courses which offer far poorer probability of eventual career success than is claimed. This extends to low level ( the old cert/ diploma stuff) STEM courses. In ireland the same "market" is served primarily by the ITs and occasionally by universities. Understand I am not speaking against the IT network in general but rather its inflation or some areas it serves. This is where I think the Irish systems needs to look at wastage , drop out rates and
 

Ardillaun

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The biggest issue here is the problems caused by turning students into customers. I worked in the UK university sector around the time that fees came in - there was a dramatic drop in standards. The philosophy of "the customer is always right" doesn't work well when the customer is also the student.
Grade inflation for a start.
 

NYCKY

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The US and UK systems are largely a scam. In the US, the student loan system is bonkers. The banks have to lend to you, by law, without regard for what you wish to study. So someone walking in wanting to take a 200k loan to study Klingon at Utah University of Fakeology gets their loan the same as someone studying engineering at Harvard. Student loan debt is special too - its legally impossible to default on it, ever. Oh, and if you miss a payment the interest rate 'reverts' to around 9%. I know a US graduate who will be paying 2k per month interest forever on her student debt because she once missed a payment (She says she made the payment but the company didn't file it on time - its in their interest to make mistakes).

In the UK there are entirely fake colleges set up solely to scam the loan system. They cruse around offering cash to homeless people to sign up as a student, then they get the fees. The 'students' dont ever need to pay it back as their incomes will never exceed the threshold.
US banks are under no obligation to lend to students to study whatever they wish. Where did you get that from?
 


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