Ireland has rejected Anglo-America & chosen Europe: Where do we go from here?

owedtojoy

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Well, the deed is done. The UK will leave the EU, and the US has the most anti-EU President it has ever had. The two main "Anglosphere" countries will cleave closer together, if the advance publicity is anything to go by. And Ireland, by its actions, has voted "No" to any closer relationship with that alignment. We will not be following, and neither (possibly) will Scotland. Northern Ireland will be in a sort of limbo, neither in nor out of the EU, something not yet fully realised.

What are the implications and future directions for Ireland?
  • The UK - EU Free Trade Agreement: Critical over the next year, probably for even longer, and Ireland has a key role. Differently to the Withdrawal Agreement, when Ireland needed the EU to be tough with the UK in order to preserve a frictionless border and the Good Friday Agreement, it is now (paradoxically) in our interests for the UK to get a good Agreement, consistent with the Single Market. No matter what, the UK is our major trading partner. This will mean a new Irish strategy.
  • Anglo-America's Best Friend in the EU: Building on the above, we are still culturally aligned with the US and the UK, and the only English-speaking country in the EU, unless Scotland joins us. This is an opportunity for Ireland to be a link into the EU for the US and the UK. We can be a bridge, and offer advice to all parties. This does not mean that we are anyone's "inside man". Smooth US-EU and UK-EU relationships are in our interest, and our diplomacy should always facilitate that.
  • Hanseatic League 2.0: The UK was our major ally in EU councils, and a firm opponent of French-led reform. Now that we have no geographical neighbour in the EU (again, unless Scotland finds a way to join), our alignment is with the Hanseatic League 2.0, an alliance of Netherlands, Scandinavia and the Baltic States, smaller states with which we share many interests. Our attitude to issues like reforms proposed by Emanuel Macron, like a European Border Force, on Banking, on Taxation, on Climate Change .. will be co-ordinated with these countries. What is really important is that we not let ourselves get isolated, but play the fullest role possible in the EU.
  • The EU as a Worldwide Trading Bloc: In a dawning era of trade wars, Ireland is too small to operate outside of a major trading bloc, which is why membership of the EU is a valuable asset. As the EU makes more trade deals with other countries and trading blocs (e.g. China, India, Mercosur ..), Ireland must be sure its needs are catered for.
  • European Security: Cyber-security will be a key concern. As will EU Security along the Mediterranean, in the Middle East and in Eastern Europe. Ireland will have to be ready to play its role.
It is both scary and exciting that we have cut loose (not altogether of our own volition) from the countries that we formerly looked upon as exemplars or mentors. The EU has been a liberating experience for the Republic of Ireland, and we have come of age within it, hard as it is for anyone not from this country to understand. There is no option but to move on to another level.
 


Dame_Enda

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I think Ireland should function as America's best friend in the EU. The Irish Diaspora are crucial to Irish influence on the global stage. The Catalans cant internationalise their cause because they don't have a large diaspora. Those who would throw American ties under the bus should remember the vote in Congress to support the Good Friday Agreement.

Also being in the EU allows us some protection when we take different foreign policy positions from the US. We can argue it is the "EU position" we are taking, when our position differs from that of the US but coincides with that of most EU countries. If we were outside the EU, the US and China could pressure us to support them on the international stage with trade sanctions. But within the EU, we are shielded from that because of the size of the EU market, which also prevents other member states from sanctioning us over political disagreements.
 
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Pyewacket

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I had an idea of a bridge from Waterford to Caens.

I mean shit if that English twat thinks he can build one from Cushendall to Campbell Town, let's show him.
 

Lord Talbot

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Was the latest film or tv show you watched from the Anglosphere, or Europe?

Ireland straddles both worlds, always has done, and will continue to do so. The US and UK speak our language and share our history. Europe however is full of culturally catholic nations sympathetic to Irish nationalism, so there is a natural camaraderie there.

If Ireland is smart it can do very well out of all this. Both parts.
 

Pyewacket

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Was the latest film or tv show you watched from the Anglosphere, or Europe?

Ireland straddles both worlds, always has done, and will continue to do so. The US and UK speak our language and we share a bond through that common culture. Europe however is full of culturally catholic nations sympathetic to Irish natioanlism, and therefore there is a natural cameraderie there.

If Ireland is smart it can do very well out of all this.
Yep. UI, that will burn your biscuits, but the Brits will heave a sigh of relief.

Whether or not they were Brexiteers. :)
 

Lord Talbot

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Yep. UI, that will burn your biscuits, but the Brits will heave a sigh of relief.

Whether or not they were Brexiteers. :)
I've no biscuits in that bonfire, and England can't wait for the Irish to stop bickering. But England will do right by the majority in NI.
 

Surkov

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Was the latest film or tv show you watched from the Anglosphere, or Europe?

Ireland straddles both worlds, always has done, and will continue to do so. The US and UK speak our language and share our history. Europe however is full of culturally catholic nations sympathetic to Irish nationalism, so there is a natural camaraderie there.

If Ireland is smart it can do very well out of all this. Both parts.
LOL.
 

Pyewacket

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England can't wait, but England will do right by the majority in NI.
How to unpick this silly post?

England can't do right by itself.

The majority in NI is now nationalist.

They could not give two shits for England and vicey versey.
 

Pyewacket

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Yep. UI, that will burn your biscuits, but the Brits will heave a sigh of relief.

Whether or not they were Brexiteers. :)
Also did you not notice how the DUP were shafted?

Hah-bloody-hah.

Border down the Irish Sea, the North is OUT of the UK, how long will it take you to catch up?
 

Lord Talbot

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How to unpick this silly post?

England can't do right by itself.

The majority in NI is now nationalist.

They could not give two shits for England and vicey versey.
England can look after itself. If Scotland and NI want to leave, England will let them leave.

Nationalists got 38% of the NI vote last week, that's not a majority.
 

Newrybhoy

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How to unpick this silly post?

England can't do right by itself.

The majority in NI is now nationalist.

They could not give two shits for England and vicey versey.
The majority in NI is not nationalist.

That is a pure lie.
 

Pyewacket

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England can look after itself. If Scotland and NI want to leave, England will let them leave.

Nationalists got 38% of the NI vote last week, that's not a majority.
Johnson does not have a majority of the UK electorate either.

You can stay on here all night playing silly buggers or you can accept the UK is over.

Brace yourself, Bridget.

And stop this crap about the UK "doing right by NI". They never did, except briefly with the GFA. They are swirling the sink hole and the last thing on their minds is NI.
 

Lord Talbot

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Johnson does not have a majority of the UK electorate either.

You can stay on here all night playing silly buggers or you can accept the UK is over.

Brace yourself, Bridget.

And stop this crap about the UK "doing right by NI". They never did, except briefly with the GFA. They are swirling the sink hole and the last thing on their minds is NI.
You are correct Johnson does not command a popular majority, and neither did Brexit-supporting parties in this election. But that is the system the UK uses. However, for Irish unity, a border poll is required, not just a parliamentary majority.

The UK will uphold the desire of the majority of NI to stay in, or leave, the UK as it so chooses. That is crystal clear.
 

Pyewacket

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You are correct Johnson does not command a popular majority, and neither did Brexit-supporting parties in this election. But that is the system the UK uses. However, for Irish unity, a border poll is required, not just a parliamentary majority.
OK genius, you think that won't happen, and if it does, NI will vote to stay in the UK?

Where the actual f*uck have you been for the last ten years?
 

Lord Talbot

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OK genius, you think that won't happen, and if it does, NI will vote to stay in the UK?

Where the actual f*uck have you been for the last ten years?
I think a border poll will happen at some point sure, but whether it passes or not depends on when its held, what's going on at the time, etc etc. I don't have a crystal ball I just offer an analysis. You can take it or leave it. But don't ask me to swallow your guff about Irish unity being just around the corner. I've been listening to nats saying that for the last 30 years.

If a border poll was held now, NI would vote to remain in the UK. Nats would be doing well to get more than 40% imo.
 

Pyewacket

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I think a border poll will happen at some point sure, but whether it passes or not depends on when its held, what's going on at the time, etc etc. I don't have a crystal ball I just offer an analysis. You can take it or leave it. But don't ask me to swallow your guff about Irish unity being just around the corner. I've been listening to that for the last 30 years.
You are completely confident that you know exactly what will happen now the UK is exiting the EU?

Big man you. And you believe the UK will do right by NI? You are a moron, It never did.

What sort f Irish shit puts his faith in a Tory [populist gvernement
 

parentheses

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Johnson does not have a majority of the UK electorate either.

You can stay on here all night playing silly buggers or you can accept the UK is over.

Brace yourself, Bridget.

And stop this crap about the UK "doing right by NI". They never did, except briefly with the GFA. They are swirling the sink hole and the last thing on their minds is NI.
Will I bookmark that?
 

Lord Talbot

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You are completely confident that you know exactly what will happen now the UK is exiting the EU?

Big man you. And you believe the UK will do right by NI? You are a moron, It never did.

What sort f Irish shit puts his faith in a Tory [populist gvernement
Brexit and Irish unity are connected, but they are not the same thing.

Forget the Tories. Any UK govt is duty bound to grant a border poll if Stormont asks for one. And that requires a nationalist consensus in the NI Assembly. Its fairly straightforward stuff.
 


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