Ireland is a failed state, where now?

king5494

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Mar 3, 2010
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It's obvious now that the Republic is a failed state and dramatic change will be enforced upon it's people over the next few years.

The cosy consensus of right of centre politics has failed and together with the break down of the western Capitalist system which will devour our state A NEW IRELAND will be reborn .

I fear this will not happen quickly and over the next few years the politically ignorant majority will awaken and choose a defined political ideology which will offer them the most answers and comfort in their circumstances.

The contradictions inherent within the failing Capitalist System will ensure that Left wing ideology will prevail and the ELITIST system inherited from the British will be dismantled peacefully or with resistance, violently.

I argue that we must bring this about quickly to avoid any more damage and Europe and our place within it must be re-examined as the EU is now more a right wing dictatorship run by banks than a consensus of equal democracies with it's population to fore.
 


Simbo67

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1) General Election
2) Constitutional reform either through refrenda or complete rewrite through some sort of constitutional convention.
 

eoinod

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Here... we are quite evidently not a failed state. This is getting a tad outrageous.

Are you saying that ourselves, Latvia, Romania and Hungary are all in the same boat as Somalia, Sri Lanka, Afghanistan etc? They are genuine failed states, we are not. Our state apparatus functions grand. It is our economy that is a shambles.
 

Congalltee

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1. Make civil servants accountable.
2. Politicians should lose their pensions if they are found to have acted with incompetence.
3. Single seat first past the post or else a Dail of 80 elected from one constituency.
4. Abolish quangos.
5. Economics and history to be made mandatory subjects to leaving cert.
6. Cut politicians pay to twice average industrial and ministers to be selected from outside of the Dail.
7. Dail to sit 5 days a week.
8. Cross border bodies with executive power to be given real powers.
9. The economic case for national reunification to be set out.
10. Term limits for politicians.
 

bkeith

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1. Make civil servants accountable.
2. Politicians should lose their pensions if they are found to have acted with incompetence.
3. Single seat first past the post or else a Dail of 80 elected from one constituency.
4. Abolish quangos.
5. Economics and history to be made mandatory subjects to leaving cert.
6. Cut politicians pay to twice average industrial and ministers to be selected from outside of the Dail.
7. Dail to sit 5 days a week.
8. Cross border bodies with executive power to be given real powers.
9. The economic case for national reunification to be set out.
10. Term limits for politicians.
Aren't Cross border bodies quangos?
 

Congalltee

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Here... we are quite evidently not a failed state. This is getting a tad outrageous.

Are you saying that ourselves, Latvia, Romania and Hungary are all in the same boat as Somalia, Sri Lanka, Afghanistan etc? They are genuine failed states, we are not. Our state apparatus functions grand. It is our economy that is a shambles.
The non-state/banking economy is certainly not a shambles. It is productive, profitable and has become more competitive in the last 3 years. It is this way, in spite of the State. The 26 county state and the 6 county statelet are both failed political entities. I wonder could there be a common solution?
 

FutureTaoiseach

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We are no more a failed state than America was in 1932. We remain in the top 3 destinations for American multinationals in Europe, and the UK PM Cameron has said that the UK trades more with Ireland than with India and China combined. There isn't a country on the planet that hasn't at some stage endured a devastating economic recession. Then problem isn't the Irish people but those who have deceived them. The argument that Ireland is a "failed state" is being used to advance European political-union by persuading the Irish that the old British line that the Irish were too stupid to run ourselves was true. It isn't. Things started to go wrong when McCreevy was sent to Brussels and Cowen brought in to implement Bertie's 'Socialist' programme of Benchmarking the public-sector into a comfortable economic elite for which the private-sector was to be screwed. And again: how can a regime that creates 800 quangos at a cost of €13 billion per annum, spends €20 billion on social welfare and public-sector pay each be 'rightwing' except in the deluded fantasies of the Left-Liberal, Dublin 4 Big Government, tax-and-spend, PC elites? Plz. :roll:

When I was 12 Ireland was thr 26th richest country on earth, and we remain in the top 5. To quote Einstein: "Everything is relative". There is an awful lot of wild-rhetoric coming over the airwaves comparing us to the 1950's, when Irish children had to walk to school through fields because of the absence of road-infrastructure and their parents couldn't even afford to buy them shoes (my father told me about this). Perspective please. :roll:
 

wombat

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It's obvious now that the Republic is a failed state and dramatic change will be enforced upon it's people over the next few years.
.
More juvenile waffle. We will have huge debts imposed on us but we have the choice to pay them back or sit around crying about poor us. If we get a single functioning bank out of the IMF, we will be well on our way to recovery.
 

eoinod

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Messages
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The non-state/banking economy is certainly not a shambles. It is productive, profitable and has become more competitive in the last 3 years. It is this way, in spite of the State. The 26 county state and the 6 county statelet are both failed political entities. I wonder could there be a common solution?
Banking economy is not a shambles? :D :D

Sure... That's why the IMF have to bail us out. That is why, despite countless billions being poured into our banks, they still can't get credit flowing.

You also seem to be confusing the state and current government. The state didn't pursue a negligent economic policy of "free money for all". The State didn't turn a blind eye to the shenanigans of our bankers (and in fact encourage their gross negligence). Successive Fianna Fáil led governments did and the electorate gave them the mandate to do so.

Blame the electorate first. Then Fianna Fáil. Then their erstwhile allies in power. Then the bankers. Not the state. All the state has done is allow the democratic will of the people to be carried out. The fact that the people tend to be idiotic cannot legitimately be blamed on the institutional framework of our state.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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Drico said:
Banking economy is not a shambles?
I think he meant non-banking.
You also seem to be confusing the state and current government. The state didn't pursue a negligent economic policy of "free money for all". The State didn't turn a blind eye to the shenanigans of our bankers (and in fact encourage their gross negligence). Successive Fianna Fáil led governments did and the electorate gave them the mandate to do so.
The ECB is also to blame for providing the excess of cheap-credit to the Irish banking system which resulted in lower interest rates for Irish loans which in turn fuelled the credit-binge. There is an agenda to hold the Irish people and State collectively and exclusively responsible for the recession caused by the ruling-elites in Brussels, Frankfurt and Dublin. This agenda is directed at furthering political-union in a European Federal state by promoting a thesis that we are not capable of running our own affairs. Such Vichyism is based on a false and anti-national premise, which betrays the men and women of 1916.
 
Last edited:

Congalltee

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Banking economy is not a shambles? :D :D

Sure... That's why the IMF have to bail us out. That is why, despite countless billions being poured into our banks, they still can't get credit flowing.

You also seem to be confusing the state and current government. The state didn't pursue a negligent economic policy of "free money for all". The State didn't turn a blind eye to the shenanigans of our bankers (and in fact encourage their gross negligence). Successive Fianna Fáil led governments did and the electorate gave them the mandate to do so.

Blame the electorate first. Then Fianna Fáil. Then their erstwhile allies in power. Then the bankers. Not the state. All the state has done is allow the democratic will of the people to be carried out. The fact that the people tend to be idiotic cannot legitimately be blamed on the institutional framework of
our state.
Obviously the banking economy is a complete mess, who suggested otherwise? (I referred to economy of thr non-state and non-banking not being in shambles. Not the best way of putting it, but I hardly expected anyone to put your interpretation on it).

The apparatus of the state has failed.
- underregulation taken to obscene levels.
- no accountability of civil servants or politicians (excluding elections under prstv)
- no prosecutions of those responsible.
- level of pay, expenses and allowances of political class have reached nutty levels
- the state is unable to borrow on foreign markets
- the state has a deficit of 32% of GDP
- the State delegated child care to paedophiles for generations.
- few north of the border would touch us with a bargepole notwithstanding the rhetoric of a minority.
- the state is required to accept a bi-lateral loan from the UK as well as delegating fiscal policy to the IMF.

Does that sound like a State which is a success?
 

karldaly

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Feb 26, 2009
Messages
465
.
.

"Ireland is a failed state, where now"

First job is to kick the cover-up artists, liars, drunks, thugs and other assorted bums out of government.

Then we need to jail the bankers who created this mess.
They can do it in other countries so why not here.
Are the Gardai really so bent that they will refuse to go after these criminals - I don't think so.

Wall Street Journal - Federal authorities, capping a three-year investigation, are preparing insider-trading charges that could ensnare consultants, investment bankers, hedge-fund and mutual-fund traders, and analysts across the nation, according to people familiar with the matter.
U.S. Pursues Sweeping Insider-Trading Probe - WSJ.com

Until we first of all staunch the corruption there will be no new beginning.
.
.
 

darkhorse

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Dec 12, 2005
Messages
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It's obvious now that the Republic is a failed state and dramatic change will be enforced upon it's people over the next few years.

The cosy consensus of right of centre politics has failed and together with the break down of the western Capitalist system which will devour our state A NEW IRELAND will be reborn .

I fear this will not happen quickly and over the next few years the politically ignorant majority will awaken and choose a defined political ideology which will offer them the most answers and comfort in their circumstances.

The contradictions inherent within the failing Capitalist System will ensure that Left wing ideology will prevail and the ELITIST system inherited from the British will be dismantled peacefully or with resistance, violently.

I argue that we must bring this about quickly to avoid any more damage and Europe and our place within it must be re-examined as the EU is now more a right wing dictatorship run by banks than a consensus of equal democracies with it's population to fore.
You need to rethink as there are at least 2 major flaws in your argument:

a) We have always had left of centre politics in Ireland - this is why the State has employed thousands of unnecessary PS workers and ridiculously expensive social welfare and health services and hundreds of quangoes. As a result, the State is losing €19bn annually

b) the captialist system has not failed and never will or could. However, the Irish banking system has failed or come close to that. Big difference.
 

eoinod

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Messages
261
Well it did seem fairly incredulous that you would claim that the Banking Sector was grand but in fairness, what you are asserting is not much more sensible.

Where is the unemployment coming from?

The only sectors of our economy that our doing well are those that depend on foreign markets, not our own. ie. our export sectors and the MNCs we host in this country.

To state that our economy is grand aside from the state and banking sector is evidently just not accurate.

- the State delegated child care to paedophiles for generations.
Quite innaccurately phrased. However, the fact that the state was complicit in institutionalised paedophilia is the only one of the points that you have listed that was a genuine failing of the state as opposed to the direct result of the decisions of recent FFer governments. It is also worth noting, that this is a failing that the state has addressed. I think it is fair to say that, though far from perfect, our state social services are much much better that when paedophilia was rampant within them.
 

vanla sighs

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Sep 1, 2009
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Where to now? Default and GE or which ever way you'd prefer. We can default, that is within our power. Well respected economists are saying we should do just that. When Argentina defaulted they were recovering within 17 weeks!
 

Pauli

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We need to extend criminal liability to Cabinet decision-making.
 
D

Deleted member 17573

Where to now? Default and GE or which ever way you'd prefer. We can default, that is within our power. Well respected economists are saying we should do just that. When Argentina defaulted they were recovering within 17 weeks!
When did they return to the bond markets?
 

Pauli

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The ECB is also to blame for providing the excess of cheap-credit to the Irish banking system which resulted in lower interest rates for Irish loans which in turn fuelled the credit-binge. There is an agenda to hold the Irish people and State collectively and exclusively responsible for the recession caused by the ruling-elites in Brussels, Frankfurt and Dublin. This agenda is directed at furthering political-union in a European Federal state by promoting a thesis that we are not capable of running our own affairs. Such Vichyism is based on a false and anti-national premise, which betrays the men and women of 1916.
Very similar to giving lots of booze to a chronic alcoholic and coming back later demanding that the alcoholic pay for it. Needless to say, the chronic alcoholic made no effort to curtail the booze intake or how to mitigate its effects and has nothing to show for the binge he went on.
 


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