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Ireland is in a worse state than it was before the bailout says economists!


Neutron

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Things can only get better, surely?

But so far they havent, I have provided you lovely people with the state of affairs over our the continued collapse on the falling number of jobs in Ireland, now we learn that the Economy is in a worse state than it was two years ago under Brian Cowen!

Richard Tol, who is the former ESRI economist, has today told us he believes the country is now in a worse state than before we were given the costly cash lifeline by the Troika.

He says many people have gone through pain and yet it appears it has been all in vain.


IRELAND'S economic future is bleaker than ever, two years after the country was bailed out, financial experts have warned.

We are a country totally changed, yet some things -- such as the deepest recession to hit this country in generations -- have persisted.The bailout -- a funding programme from the IMF/ECB/EC -- has seen a massive transfer of money from households to the banking sector through austerity policies, economists told the Herald.But there has been no gain for the pain, as structural reforms have not taken place, they say.Richard Tol, the former ESRI economist, believes the country is now in a worse state than before we were given the costly cash lifeline by the Troika."A lot of Irish people are a lot poorer and the Irish State has built up an enormous pile of debt."It is pretty obvious that Ireland is much worse off than it was a couple of years ago," the University of Sussex professor said.
Two years after bailout, we're in an even worse state, economists warn - News, Frontpage - Herald.ie
 

Crazy horse 6

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In other news the sky is blue and the grass is green.

We had the chance to do the right thing in 2008 and failed.
 

Ryan Tubbs

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Richard Tol, Constantin Gurdiev, and Eddie Hobbs.

Wow - it's real Nobel Prize standard economists you're quoting here. Hobbs isn't even an economist....
 

Neutron

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Richard Tol, Constantin Gurdiev, and Eddie Hobbs.

Wow - it's real Nobel Prize standard economists you're quoting here. Hobbs isn't even an economist....
Are you saying things are better?
 

Crazy horse 6

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Richard Tol, Constantin Gurdiev, and Eddie Hobbs.

Wow - it's real Nobel Prize standard economists you're quoting here. Hobbs isn't even an economist....
If these guys where running the show instead of the schoolteachers we have at present and the crooks we had before them we would be well on the road to recovery.
 

Neutron

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The major issue which is affecting Ireland's chances of recovery, according to Tol, is the failure to implement economic reforms such as privatisation in the energy sector.
"We're still paying way too much for electricity and gas. The Minister for Energy (Pat Rabbitte) is pretending this is not a problem, (he is) still working for the unions and not the people."So in that sense Ireland hasn't changed. It's just a bit poorer and a lot more debt."If you compare the Irish economy now to what it was a couple of years ago, nothing much has changed. If you look at Irish politics, nothing much has changed."We have muppets with different names and different faces in the Dail but they're still muppets," he added.Mr Tol said the only thing the ECB cares about is that we pay back the German banks who have lent us money.
 

Ryan Tubbs

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Are you saying things are better?
Well where were we before the bailout, in October and November 2010?

Economy in freefall; Government threatening to collapse at any minute; bond yields at astronomical levels; soaring unemployment; crippling and unsustainable deficit; crippling debt thanks to bank guarantee etc.

And compare that to now:

Economy growing slowly; a stable if lively Government; bond yields at sustainable levels; unemployment huge but stabilised; big deficit, but massively reduced since 2010; crippling debt thanks to bank guarantee.

Since the day the bailout deal was signed, things have improved on most indicators. So what are this motley crew of "economists" on about?
 

jackryan

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If these guys where running the show instead of the schoolteachers we have at present and the crooks we had before them we would be well on the road to recovery.
Well let them put themselves out there for election so! being a hurler on the ditch is alot easier than being on the pitch!
 

Ryan Tubbs

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If these guys where running the show instead of the schoolteachers we have at present and the crooks we had before them we would be well on the road to recovery.
Ahem. Need I remind you of Tol's botched ESRI report? And Hobbs' "Brendan Investments"?

And you want them running the show?
 

Neutron

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Well where were we before the bailout, in October and November 2010?

Economy in freefall; Government threatening to collapse at any minute; bond yields at astronomical levels; soaring unemployment; crippling debt thanks to bank guarantee etc.

And compare that to now:

Economy growing slowly; a stable if lively Government; bond yields at sustainable levels; unemployment huge but stabilised; crippling debt thanks to bank guarantee.

Since the day the bailout deal was signed, things have improved on most indicators. So what are this motley crew of "economists" on about?
The Economy is not growing.

Unemployment is only stable because thousands are leaving the country.

The total number of jobs continues to fall year on year.

Welfare spend is increasing.

Deficit growing.

We are only back in the bond markets for token payments, the real test is when we go all in.
 

seanmacc

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What has happened to Ireland since the "Emergency Funding" was imposed on us has been a farce. There are people making money off the misery in this country. For example, who bought the Anglo Bonds at a massive discount and forced the Irish exchequer to pay them? Governance in this state has no credibility.
 

Crazy horse 6

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Well where were we before the bailout, in October and November 2010?

Economy in freefall; Government threatening to collapse at any minute; bond yields at astronomical levels; soaring unemployment; crippling and unsustainable deficit; crippling debt thanks to bank guarantee etc.

And compare that to now:

Economy growing slowly; a stable if lively Government; bond yields at sustainable levels; unemployment huge but stabilised; big deficit, but massively reduced since 2010; crippling debt thanks to bank guarantee.

Since the day the bailout deal was signed, things have improved on most indicators. So what are this motley crew of "economists" on about?


You seriously think the economy is growing? Jesus. Do you sit in all day and watch and listen to RTE or Newstalk. The economy is in freefall right here right now.

Unemployment has stopped growing because people are leaving in their droves.

You think schools not being able to afford to turn on the heat,soup kitchens,a non fit for purpose health system are "things improving". lol
 

gerhard dengler

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2004 : Ireland's unemployment rate was 5% and the PAYE yield was €10.6 billion

2012: Ireland's unemployment rate is 14.8% and the PAYE yield is €11.6 billion (to 31.10.2012). The forecast PAYE for 2012 is €13 billion.

In normal circumstances facing what Ireland is facing, government would be looking to cut taxes in order to stimulate economic activity.
 
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farnaby

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Well where were we before the bailout, in October and November 2010?

Economy in freefall; Government threatening to collapse at any minute; bond yields at astronomical levels; soaring unemployment; crippling and unsustainable deficit; crippling debt thanks to bank guarantee etc.

And compare that to now:

Economy growing slowly; a stable if lively Government; bond yields at sustainable levels; unemployment huge but stabilised; big deficit, but massively reduced since 2010; crippling debt thanks to bank guarantee.

Since the day the bailout deal was signed, things have improved on most indicators. So what are this motley crew of "economists" on about?
No, most things are getting worse at a slower rate; or where there is improvement it is miniscule compared with the rising mountain of debt.

The supposed way out of our predicament is, in order, to 1) stabilise, 2) grow, 3) reduce the debt burden, 4) reduce unemployment and raise real incomes. 4 years into the crisis we have yet to truly achieve 1).
 

Burnout

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I have a life.
Richard Tol, Constantin Gurdiev, and Eddie Hobbs.

Wow - it's real Nobel Prize standard economists you're quoting here. Hobbs isn't even an economist....
You do'nt need to be a weatherman to tell which way the wind blows...
 

Ryan Tubbs

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You seriously think the economy is growing? Jesus. Do you sit in all day and watch and listen to RTE or Newstalk. The economy is in freefall right here right now.
Sorry but the economy grew by 1.4% last year, and is expected to grow by 0.5-1% this year.

Those are the facts, so what are you on about?
 

Ryan Tubbs

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No, most things are getting worse at a slower rate; or where there is improvement it is miniscule compared with the rising mountain of debt.
So you think that the collapse in bond yields is miniscule? From 20% to 4/5% in 12 months for medium term debt? Miniscule? This is what will allow us to get out of the bailout, after all....

And a 4/5% swing in economic output, from contraction of 3-4% into two years of small growth, is "miniscule", is it?
 
M

MrFunkyBoogaloo

Sorry but the economy grew by 1.4% last year, and is expected to grow by 0.5-1% this year.

Those are the facts, so what are you on about?
GNP only.

GDP is stagnant. 0% growth.
 
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