Ireland seeks to join EU Naval Group Operation Sophia

former wesleyan

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That's not who we would be engaged against

IN fact any ground operations would probably get the tacit approval of those who control the territory on which they are conducted

- in return for some kind of trade off you understand....:cool:
Smugglers operate in tandem with the Islamists, paying them off in order to be allowed to function. They'd be onto a lightly armed force in a minute.
 


Wascurito

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The 'increasing flow' is caused largely by the fact that the migrants know that they will be picked up by the LE Eithne or some other EU vessel and deposited with the hapless Italians. If the Irish navy were required to bring them to their home country, their mission would be ended tomorrow. In a recent interview on RTE, the LE Eithne commander readily stated that people traffickers were on his ship along with those rescued. The question as to why the Irish navy were facilitating this racket was of course not asked, though as a military officer I presume he would have had to decline to answer it.

My personal preference would be for the Irish navy not to be involved - not because of neutrality (which I regard as a meaningless shibboleth) but because I consider we have no national interest in trafficking African economic migrants, which is what we are effectively doing. If the mission is to be changed to one of actually actively trying to stop this trade and combat the traffickers at sea or in Libya, I would think that is mainly the Italians' business for obvious reasons and good luck to them. Why should we be involved at all? (other than to placate the do-gooding instincts of certain overly EU-enthusiastic FG ministers).
If we were hit by a crisis, we'd expect help from our European partners and they'd be keen to help. Partnership cuts both ways.

I do understand the argument that we shouldn't be acting as a conduit but the other option is to let them drown by the tens of thousands.

Meanwhile, the idea that we should just turn our backs on the whole situation and do nothing at all isn't really option. Sooner or later they'll be coming here too.
 

Trampas

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Euronews is reporting a rescue yesterday where the surviving migrants were deposited back on the Libyan beach. It is the only way. Do it now or do it later when hundreds of thousands more have arrived in the EU.
 

Catalpast

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Smugglers operate in tandem with the Islamists, paying them off in order to be allowed to function. They'd be onto a lightly armed force in a minute.
No European power would put a Force ashore unless it was fully protected

Britain France and Italy all have Marines, Paras and Special Forces

+ Navies well up to the task

There is no armed force in Libya that could take them on without a serious cost to themselves

But TBH I think bribes, political, economic and military would be offered 1st

The Irish contingent would be probably a reinforced Company -

The Ranger Wing are the obvious choice.
 

storybud1

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The forces in Leb who've had Mowag's engaged seemed to have handled things alright, and then there's the Ranger's who just beat out other SF units including the Seals.
There would be no need for direct action, it is economic weapons and media that should be utilized, the Aussies do it quite good,,

Tow every boat back without exception or what ever means needed to ensure no successful ferries can happen into the EU, then ensure the message gets back to all those on the shore that they are wasting their money,

The smugglers need the oxygen of successful ferry trips for their customers,(this oxygen is the battle, not guns and fighting as more smugglers would just appear) better for the masses to turn on the smugglers and messages such as one month without one African making it on a smugglers boat,, then 6 months, eventually it would be all over the African news channels that it is utterly pointless heading for North Africa as there is ZERO chance of getting into Europe , fortress Europe is up and running and if you do somehow make it you will be immediately sent back,,

Can you imagine the hundreds of billions of euro already spent on this racket being spent more sensibly back in Africa ??
not to mention the hundreds of billions already wasted on the welfare tourists that already got here ??

I am surprised nobody has written a book on the scandalous western media clearly portraying young sub-saharan men from the third world as genuine Syrian refugees and doctors, engineers, etc,, fake news like RTE should be remembered for their early propaganda when only long grainy images were shown,, it was quite clear RTE and the rest were in on this scam,,

One, just ONE investigative reporter on a Naval boat would have cleared up this fact for the public years ago,,

There is no Irish media, only the liars safe in their ivory towers,, fake news bullsh1tters that are a disgrace to real unbiased, factual reporters of the news.

The Irish media cleverly hid the latest census reports on the % of Africans that are on the dole,, in free housing etc,, (not to slur any African that is working etc,) but it is a fooking census,,, facts and all,, remember those things called facts ??

Mass immigration from the illiterate , unemployable third world is simply madness, the pull of the free life would make anyone chance their arms,, house, money, healthcare, education, blond white chicks to bang, little chance of long term jail for crime , pensions, there simply is no downside to making it here,, (except for the natives who have to pay for it)

A comparison would be for a clown from Offaly making to America and getting a mansion in the Hamptons and 200 grand a year for life plus free healthcare and a place in Harvard,, he only has to make it there,,,
 

Catalpast

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If we were hit by a crisis, we'd expect help from our European partners and they'd be keen to help. Partnership cuts both ways.

I do understand the argument that we shouldn't be acting as a conduit but the other option is to let them drown by the tens of thousands.

Meanwhile, the idea that we should just turn our backs on the whole situation and do nothing at all isn't really option. Sooner or later they'll be coming here too.
They are already here

Check out Church rd Mulhuddart Dublin 15
 

HenryHorace

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It's utterly disgraceful they are involved at all. It encourages these people to put their lives at risk to reach the welfare heaven of Europe. If they didn't taxi them they wouldn't bother taking the risk. Shame on all involved, they have blood on their hands.
 

sparky42

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It's utterly disgraceful they are involved at all. It encourages these people to put their lives at risk to reach the welfare heaven of Europe. If they didn't taxi them they wouldn't bother taking the risk. Shame on all involved, they have blood on their hands.
Sure, I mean they've only already crossed a desert in some cases to get to the Med, of course they'd turn around and go home...
 

HenryHorace

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If we were hit by a crisis, we'd expect help from our European partners and they'd be keen to help. Partnership cuts both ways.

I do understand the argument that we shouldn't be acting as a conduit but the other option is to let them drown by the tens of thousands.

Meanwhile, the idea that we should just turn our backs on the whole situation and do nothing at all isn't really option. Sooner or later they'll be coming here too.
Nonsense. It's not inevitable they are coming here. This is our country, these are our borders. I demand as an Irish citizen our borders are hold firm against these welfare tourists.
 

HenryHorace

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Sure, I mean they've only already crossed a desert in some cases to get to the Med, of course they'd turn around and go home...
If they drown soon enough the message will get through and this madness will stop.
 

former wesleyan

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If they drown soon enough the message will get through and this madness will stop.
Really ? They'll communicate via a ouiji board I assume.
 

Wascurito

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Nonsense. It's not inevitable they are coming here. This is our country, these are our borders. I demand as an Irish citizen our borders are hold firm against these welfare tourists.
1500 kms of coastline and 500kms of a crazy border that cuts across fields and mountains and bogs.

Demand away....:lol:.
 

midlander12

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If we were hit by a crisis, we'd expect help from our European partners and they'd be keen to help. Partnership cuts both ways.

I do understand the argument that we shouldn't be acting as a conduit but the other option is to let them drown by the tens of thousands.

Meanwhile, the idea that we should just turn our backs on the whole situation and do nothing at all isn't really option. Sooner or later they'll be coming here too.
Yeah, like their unrequested 'help' in 2010...... and we'll see how much they'll 'help' us over Brexit.

The 'tens of thousands' coming would decline very quickly if the rescue flotilla were not there to facilitate them and their traffickers. I understood the EU was to launch a massive information campaign in various African countries warning people not to make the journey. IF they did, it wasn't very effective, as these people seem to regard the EU as little more than a ferry company.

And why should they 'coming here'? We are not part of Schengen. Who is going to admit them? What contribution are they likely to make to the Irish economy, or the Italian one for that matter? From what I have heard they are almost invariably unskilled and poorly educated. It will take years and billions of euros to turn them into productive citizens. Far better to stop the whole reprehensible business, but why Ireland as a distant off-shore island is getting involved in that, I'm not clear.
 

Wascurito

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Yeah, like their unrequested 'help' in 2010...... and we'll see how much they'll 'help' us over Brexit.

The 'tens of thousands' coming would decline very quickly if the rescue flotilla were not there to facilitate them and their traffickers. I understood the EU was to launch a massive information campaign in various African countries warning people not to make the journey. IF they did, it wasn't very effective, as these people seem to regard the EU as little more than a ferry company.

And why should they 'coming here'? We are not part of Schengen. Who is going to admit them? What contribution are they likely to make to the Irish economy, or the Italian one for that matter? From what I have heard they are almost invariably unskilled and poorly educated. It will take years and billions of euros to turn them into productive citizens. Far better to stop the whole reprehensible business, but why Ireland as a distant off-shore island is getting involved in that, I'm not clear.
They're already at Calais. And we have 2000km of undefended border and coastline. I do understand the argument that we shouldn't be acting as a conduit but you seem to think that we should do nothing. Not our problem, fingers in ears, la la la la la.

It could very quickly become our problem if post-Brexit UK becomes a colder place for them or if the French give the deux doigts to the rosbifs and tell them that they can look after the problem at Dover instead of Calais.
 

Sweet Darling

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How would you feel about Irish military personnel being involved in military action in Libya?
As the Irish are seen as the cowards of Europe. this would go some way to change that.
 

midlander12

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They're already at Calais. And we have 2000km of undefended border and coastline. I do understand the argument that we shouldn't be acting as a conduit but you seem to think that we should do nothing. Not our problem, fingers in ears, la la la la la.

It could very quickly become our problem if post-Brexit UK becomes a colder place for them or if the French give the deux doigts to the rosbifs and tell them that they can look after the problem at Dover instead of Calais.
Interesting that you seem to think that the UK can do something to stop them entering their territory but we apparently can't. Anyway, I am glad the EU is finally taking on traffickers, if that is in fact the case. My objections to Ireland being involved are more practical rather than anything else, but I feel we are getting involved in unnecessary entanglements and obligations.
 

Wascurito

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Interesting that you seem to think that the UK can do something to stop them entering their territory but we apparently can't. Anyway, I am glad the EU is finally taking on traffickers, if that is in fact the case. My objections to Ireland being involved are more practical rather than anything else, but I feel we are getting involved in unnecessary entanglements and obligations.
The UK is a far more densely populated country. They have the people and resources to maintain a presence right along their coasts.
 

Trampas

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Sure, I mean they've only already crossed a desert in some cases to get to the Med, of course they'd turn around and go home...
Well who knows? They might swing a right towards the ME and look for work there, but one thing is for sure.....they would not be taking to boats if no rescuers were off shore, or if they were about to be deposited back on the beach.
 


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