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Ireland spends more on health than UK, Finland


SlabMurphy

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Watching a recording of the Vincent Brown show mid week, Constantin Gurdgiev was on and he replied to some do gooder about the so called ' lack of resources ' for the HSE. Gurdgiev stated that - " Ireland spends 8.8% of national income on health, Sweden 9.1%, UK 8.4% and Finland 8.2% ". The do gooder challenged him and he told the do gooder he could check it out at the Central Satistics Office.

So why do we have such a terrible health service. Ok most of us know the answer - except the HSE leeches and the Workers fo the World Unite loonies - that the staff have milked the country dry. If I remember reading a year or two ago that ambulance crews in Ireland earn more than consultant doctors in Finland :rolleyes:

And then of course just like other public ' servants ' since they get buckets of time off due to shift work ( to overcome the stress of their selfless heroism and humanity etc, etc ) many of them are off driving taxi's etc

Since the Govt. have created this Frankeinstein - what can be done to get a decent health service in this country and get those leeches to do a day's work like the rest of us ?
 


eire_sai

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The problem is that the administration and management is bloated with pencil pushers who play tetris on their pc's all day. It has little to do with Doctors, Nurses or service in general at hospitals.
 

LeDroit

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Privatise the Entire Health Service. Sell everything. The workers are then accountable to their commercial bosses first avd then their customers too. Right now, they get paid no matter how sh!t they are and can't be fired. Why would they change?

The Govt should restrict itself to buying insurance for the poorest third of the population, licensing the hospitals and regulating their hygiene and safety.

Result: better outcomes and service for patients. And a govt bill of about €5Billion as opposed to €15Billion today.
 

seabhcan

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We spend 8.8% of GDP on health - but a huge chunk of that is on vastly overpriced GPs and consultants.

A GP gets paid 60 euro a go in cash. They see patients for about 20min on average for that money. 5 patients and hour, 8-10 hours, 5-6 days a week. Thats 15,000 euro a week. If they work, say, 46 weeks a year, they pull in 700,000 in cash per year.

The average GP has one or two members of staff, usually relatively low paid, and pay rent or mortgage on their place of work. Even discounting this, they are taking in at least 400k to their own pocket, in cash.

Of course, every cent is fully declared to the tax authorities.

Irish GPs earn about 5 times what UK NHS GPs earn. Thats a big part of why we spend more of our GDP on health for the same or worse result.
 

LeDroit

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We spend 8.8% of GDP on health - but a huge chunk of that is on vastly overpriced GPs and consultants.

A GP gets paid 60 euro a go in cash. They see patients for about 20min on average for that money. 5 patients and hour, 8-10 hours, 5-6 days a week. Thats 15,000 euro a week. If they work, say, 46 weeks a year, they pull in 700,000 in cash per year.

The average GP has one or two members of staff, usually relatively low paid, and pay rent or mortgage on their place of work. Even discounting this, they are taking in at least 400k to their own pocket, in cash.

Of course, every cent is fully declared to the tax authorities.

Irish GPs earn about 5 times what UK NHS GPs earn. Thats a big part of why we spend more of our GDP on health for the same or worse result.
The State isn't paying that €60 per visit. That's private income. So it's a complete red herring. The State's money is where we need to save.
 

seabhcan

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The State isn't paying that €60 per visit. That's private income. So it's a complete red herring. The State's money is where we need to save.
The thread is about the fraction of GDP spent on health. That includes private care.

If the state were to offer partial refunds on GP visits, as in France, they would actually make money, as it would be harder for GPs to hide cash income.
 

LeDroit

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The thread is about the fraction of GDP spent on health. That includes private care.

If the state were to offer partial refunds on GP visits, as in France, they would actually make money, as it would be harder for GPs to hide cash income.
If the State paid more they'd earn more? Now that's Voodoo economics! You Statist lads can come up with a million ways to spend taxpayers money can't ye?!
 

darkhorse

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The table shows total expenditure by country in 2007.
If you remove the private expenditure component, Ireland is among the highest spending nations of the world - with perhaps only Luxembourg, Netherlands, Denmark, Norwat and Belguim spending more.


 

seabhcan

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If the State paid more they'd earn more? Now that's Voodoo economics! You Statist lads can come up with a million ways to spend taxpayers money can't ye?!
Yes.

The state currently offers a tax refund on rent. To claim this refund, the renter must provide the name, address and PPS number of the person they pay rent to.

Why? So that the tax man can enforce the laws on tax for rental income. Its completely logical.

If the state offered a rebate on GP visits, it would force GP income into the tax net. Currently they take in €700,000 undocumented cash, and decide themselves how much to declare to the tax man. But I'm sure you agree that every single GP in the country is fully tax compliant already...
 

wombat

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The HSE budget is not the same as the amount being spent on health. There are welfare schemes which are administered by the HSE which skew the figures. All non health responsibilities need to be removed from the HSE, then it will be possible to look for value for money in a measurable way. Trouble is, that will mean well paid cronies losing their jobs.
 

LeDroit

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Yes.

The state currently offers a tax refund on rent. To claim this refund, the renter must provide the name, address and PPS number of the person they pay rent to.

Why? So that the tax man can enforce the laws on tax for rental income. Its completely logical.

If the state offered a rebate on GP visits, it would force GP income into the tax net. Currently they take in €700,000 undocumented cash, and decide themselves how much to declare to the tax man. But I'm sure you agree that every single GP in the country is fully tax compliant already...
The State currently does exactly what you suggest. All medical bills are tax deductible. They even have special forms just to reclaim medical expense allowances. It's called a Med 1 form.
 

4horsemen

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We spend 8.8% of GDP on health - but a huge chunk of that is on vastly overpriced GPs and consultants.

A GP gets paid 60 euro a go in cash. They see patients for about 20min on average for that money. 5 patients and hour, 8-10 hours, 5-6 days a week. Thats 15,000 euro a week. If they work, say, 46 weeks a year, they pull in 700,000 in cash per year.

The average GP has one or two members of staff, usually relatively low paid, and pay rent or mortgage on their place of work. Even discounting this, they are taking in at least 400k to their own pocket, in cash.

Of course, every cent is fully declared to the tax authorities.

Irish GPs earn about 5 times what UK NHS GPs earn. Thats a big part of why we spend more of our GDP on health for the same or worse result.
I agree. The privatized GP service demonstrates that the power of the professional unions, more than SIPTU etc, have casued us to have one of the most expensive health services in the world. The first action must be to greatly increase the number on medical graduates and open the frontline services to real competition. Then adopt a Dutch insurance for all approach.
 

SlabMurphy

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We spend 8.8% of GDP on health - but a huge chunk of that is on vastly overpriced GPs and consultants.

A GP gets paid 60 euro a go in cash. They see patients for about 20min on average for that money. 5 patients and hour, 8-10 hours, 5-6 days a week. Thats 15,000 euro a week. If they work, say, 46 weeks a year, they pull in 700,000 in cash per year.

The average GP has one or two members of staff, usually relatively low paid, and pay rent or mortgage on their place of work. Even discounting this, they are taking in at least 400k to their own pocket, in cash.

Of course, every cent is fully declared to the tax authorities.

Irish GPs earn about 5 times what UK NHS GPs earn. Thats a big part of why we spend more of our GDP on health for the same or worse result.
Incredible, Irish GPs earn about 5 times what UK NHS GPs earn. And as you also say, Of course, every cent is fully declared to the tax authorities. But I suppose the wya the great soldiers of corruption, cronyism and incompetence have ran teh country for the last 10 years it's understandable.

Googd post and not trying to put you on the spot, but what are the Labour party going to do about this extortion by the GP's ?

( BTW, Irish ambulance crews get paid more than Finnish consultants. And they have plenty of the time to drive taxi's etc God love them )
 

4horsemen

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The State currently does exactly what you suggest. All medical bills are tax deductible. They even have special forms just to reclaim medical expense allowances. It's called a Med 1 form.
Are they? I thought there was an excess of 250€ for a family and monthly drugs must exceed some figure of about 100€?
 

LeDroit

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Are they? I thought there was an excess of 250€ for a family and monthly drugs must exceed some figure of about 100€?
The drugs thing is through your pharmacy not your doctor and I think the medical deduction is from the first euro but am open to contradiction. Either way, it's not the wild west thing you suggest.
 

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