Ireland still fifth best place in the world to live in - UN HDI

Scipio

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Not all bad news, despite Fianna Fail's continuing incompetence:

Ireland retained its spot in the top five countries in the annual Human Development Index, with just Norway, Australia, New Zealand and the US rated as better places to call home.

Despite the country’s recent economic turmoil, Ireland remains unchanged since 2005, while Iceland, which suffered its own financial meltdown, slipped by 10 places to 17th place in that period...

Ireland ranked ahead of Canada in eighth place, Germany in 10th place and the UK, which slipped to 26th.
Ireland fifth best place to live - The Irish Times - Fri, Nov 05, 2010
 
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Yu yu see, tings were better when meself and Charlie were running the ship. If it werent for de bloody Leeemens we'd be alrite. 5th place isn't an accident, yeez knows who makes ye happy.
 

Interista

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Ireland is among 42 countries which have a “very high human development” ranking based on indicators such as life expectancy at birth, which stands at 80.3 years; gross national income per capita, which is $33,078; and average schooling totalling 11.6 years.
Apart from the first, the criteria look a bit blunt to me. Citing average income is meaningless without taking into account cost of living and levels of inequality. Also 'average schooling' doesn't mean much without reference to the quality of the schooling - and I doubt anyone would seriously say Ireland's education system is better than that of Germany or Denmark.

What does the study have to say aobut quality of health care, which must surely be an important factor, and which Ireland does not score highly on? Having said that, given that the US - a country with no national health-care system - scored fourth, one would have to question the basis on which this ranking was made.
 

Toland

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...I doubt anyone would seriously say Ireland's education system is better than that of Germany or Denmark.
...
Several people do. Very seriously. And they're very wrong.

Does the report mention time spent in the rain waiting on buses? Or spent sitting on smelly and motionless buses in equally motionless traffic?
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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The Human Development Index is a very poor method of measuring real wealth, utility and welfare in an economy. Switzerland is 13th for example. Are we suggesting that with their direct democracy, gradual growth, 3.5% unemployment, excellent health care and education and independence that our feudal impoverished colonised kip is worthy of 5th in comparison?

The Human Development Index has been criticised on a number of grounds, including failure to include any ecological considerations, focusing exclusively on national performance and ranking, and not paying much attention to development from a global perspective. Two authors claimed that the human development reports "have lost touch with their original vision and the index fails to capture the essence of the world it seeks to portray".[9] The index has also been criticized as "redundant" and a "reinvention of the wheel", measuring aspects of development that have already been exhaustively studied.[10][11] The index has further been criticised for having an inappropriate treatment of income, lacking year-to-year comparability, and assessing development differently in different groups of countries.[12]

Economist Bryan Caplan has criticised the way HDI scores are produced; each of the three components are bounded between zero and one. As a result of that, rich countries effectively cannot improve their ranking in certain categories, even though there is a lot of scope for economic growth and longevity left. "This effectively means that a country of immortals with infinite per-capita GDP would get a score of .666 (lower than South Africa and Tajikistan) if its population were illiterate and never went to school."[13] He argues, "Scandinavia comes out on top according to the HDI because the HDI is basically a measure of how Scandinavian your country is."[13]

The following are common criticisms directed at the HDI: that it is a redundant measure that adds little to the value of the individual measures composing it; that it is a means to provide legitimacy to arbitrary weightings of a few aspects of social development; that it is a number producing a relative ranking which is useless for inter-temporal comparisons, and difficult to compare a country's progress or regression since the HDI for a country in a given year depends on the levels of, say, life expectancy or GDP per capita of other countries in that year.[14][15][16][17] However, each year, UN member states are listed and ranked according to the computed HDI. If high, the rank in the list can be easily used as a means of national aggrandizement; alternatively, if low, it can be used to highlight national insufficiencies. Using the HDI as an absolute index of social welfare, some authors have used panel HDI data to measure the impact of economic policies on quality of life.[18]

Ratan Lal Basu criticises the HDI concept from a completely different angle. According to him the Amartya Sen-Mahbub ul Haq concept of HDI considers that provision of material amenities alone would bring about Human Development, but Basu opines that Human Development in the true sense should embrace both material and moral development. According to him human development based on HDI alone, is similar to dairy farm economics to improve dairy farm output. To quote: ‘So human development effort should not end up in amelioration of material deprivations alone: it must undertake to bring about spiritual and moral development to assist the biped to become truly human.’[19] For example, a high suicide rate would bring the index down.

A few authors have proposed alternative indices to address some of the index's shortcomings.[20] However, of those proposed alternatives to the HDI, few have produced alternatives covering so many countries, and that no development index (other than, perhaps, Gross Domestic Product per capita) has been used so extensively – or effectively, in discussions and developmental planning as the HDI.
The ISEW is a far better measurement and in most western countries, its findings suggests that people were happier in the 50s in the US and the UK for example.
 

Interista

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Several people do. Very seriously. And they're very wrong.
Ah yes of course. That 'educated English speaking workforce' which was supposed to be so unique and such a draw for all the multinationals, many of whom have packed up and gone to seek out 'educated English speaking workforces' in cheaper economies all over Eastern Europe and Asia.

Never mind that Ireland spends a lower % of GDP on education than just about any first world country, as revealed in a recent study. Or that millions of educated Europeans speak excellent English. In addition to at least one other language.
 

tea drinker

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I think it's compiled from out of date feedback.
Forget the rain, an awful lot of people are complaining about the constant negativity now. Pravda really pumping out the bad news stories - oh about 5-7 years too late.

It's still not a bad place to live - for most people.
 

Interista

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It's still not a bad place to live - for most people.
Saying Ireland is 'not bad' is not the same as saying it's got the fifth highest quality of life in the world - ahead of Germany, Denmark and Switzerland, for example.
 

GDPR

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This report is at complete variance with the majority view here on P.ie, therefore it has no standing, domestically or internationally and can be dismissed out of hand.

The real questions are as follows;

1. What connection had FF to the report?
2. Were the gang of "46" consulted?
3. If not, why not?
4. Did anyone ask Fintan O'Toole for one of his many opinions?
5. Who the hell are the UN anyway and what would they know?

David McWilliams has run an analysis of the report factoring in his 104 suggestions for solving our financial problems, resulting in a real placing of 105.6 for Ireland.

6. Why was this real position not reported on FF RTE?
7. Extracting the opinions of those who sold sites for schools to the state alone would have dropped us 27 places, why was this not done?

Once again CS is in the right of it, as he says it couldn't be right and that's the end of it. Has Mr. Zero had anything to say on the matter yet or will he too be gagged?

UN me arse.
 

MauriceColgan

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Even the poor in Ireland can stay here now. 5 Star Hotel Breaks Ireland, Romantic Breaks Ireland, Honeymoon Hotels and Packages Ireland - Ashford Castle in Cong Co Mayo West of Ireland It's worth at least one visit just to see the photos and list of famous and infamous people that stayed there.
If you think it's expensive just look what the young are paying to go and see geriatric popstars and sports events these days.

Didn't G B Shaw say you should be too busy to know whether you are happy or not, or words to that effect?
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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This report is at complete variance with the majority view here on P.ie, therefore it has no standing, domestically or internationally and can be dismissed out of hand.

The real questions are as follows;

1. What connection had FF to the report?
2. Were the gang of "46" consulted?
3. If not, why not?
4. Did anyone ask Fintan O'Toole for one of his many opinions?
5. Who the hell are the UN anyway and what would they know?

David McWilliams has run an analysis of the report factoring in his 104 suggestions for solving our financial problems, resulting in a real placing of 105.6 for Ireland.

6. Why was this real position not reported on FF RTE?
7. Extracting the opinions of those who sold sites for schools to the state alone would have dropped us 27 places, why was this not done?

Once again CS is in the right of it, as he says it couldn't be right and that's the end of it. Has Mr. Zero had anything to say on the matter yet or will he too be gagged?

UN me arse.
Ah now don't be spending your last days in the midst of vitriolic bitterness.

The HDI is crap. Deal with it. Why is Switzerland 13th?
 

hurling_lad

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How dare anyone take such an objective view of our country.

This, coming so hot on the heels of the Corruption Perceptions Index report (we were 14th least corrupt), is another fairly obvious sign that FF are getting International bodies to bombard us with propaganda in advance of the Donegal South by-election.
 

Éireann go Brách

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Ah now don't be spending your last days in the midst of vitriolic bitterness.

The HDI is crap. Deal with it. Why is Switzerland 13th?
Switzerland lost ground – overtaken by the Netherlands, Denmark and Germany – due in part to the inclusion of length of obligatory schooling for the first time. Swiss children on average must spend 10.3 years in class which is 2.3 years less than in Norway.
Switzerland falls from ninth to 13th place on UNDP Human Development Index. - swissinfo
 

Interista

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Switzerland lost ground – overtaken by the Netherlands, Denmark and Germany – due in part to the inclusion of length of obligatory schooling for the first time. Swiss children on average must spend 10.3 years in class which is 2.3 years less than in Norway.
I think this basically proves my point about this being an idiotic criterion. Why does having more years of compulsory education make for a better quality of life?
 

GDPR

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How dare anyone take such an objective view of our country.

This, coming so hot on the heels of the Corruption Perceptions Index report (we were 14th least corrupt), is another fairly obvious sign that FF are getting International bodies to bombard us with propaganda in advance of the Donegal South by-election.
Spot on.
I mean to say it's either that or the mob view, sorry, majority view is open to question, and just how likely is that I ask?
 

Magellan

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Corruption Perceptions Index
Which doesn't really deal with institutionalised corruption that is wilfully hidden.

The CPI has been roundly criticised for its data collection methodology.
 


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