Ireland - wealth distribution

HarshBuzz

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Some interesting findings in Credit Suisse's 2016 Wealth report.

Average wealth (cash, property, financial assets minus debt) per Irish adult = €180k
Median wealth per Irish adult is €68k.

European average is €105k.

The distribution of wealth is also interesting.

In Ireland, the top 5% control 49% of the wealth.
In Europe that is 57% and worldwide it's 78%.

So Ireland has a far less uneven distribution of wealth compared to Europe as a whole and also worldwide.
 


D

Deleted member 17573

Some interesting findings in Credit Suisse's 2016 Wealth report.

Average wealth (cash, property, financial assets minus debt) per Irish adult = €180k
Median wealth per Irish adult is €68k.

European average is €105k.

The distribution of wealth is also interesting.

In Ireland, the top 5% control 49% of the wealth.
In Europe that is 57% and worldwide it's 78%.

So Ireland has a far less uneven distribution of wealth compared to Europe as a whole and also worldwide.
So it's pretty bad everywhere!:rolleyes:
 
O

Oscurito

The distribution of wealth is also interesting.

In Ireland, the top 5% control 49% of the wealth.
In Europe that is 57% and worldwide it's 78%.

So Ireland has a far less uneven distribution of wealth compared to Europe as a whole and also worldwide.
Just to clarify:
In Europe, the top 5% control 57% of the wealth.
Worldwide, the top 5% control 78% of the wealth.

Have I got that correct?
 

HarshBuzz

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HarshBuzz

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Just to clarify:
In Europe, the top 5% control 57% of the wealth.
Worldwide, the top 5% control 78% of the wealth.

Have I got that correct?
That's what the report says.
 

APettigrew92

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Some interesting findings in Credit Suisse's 2016 Wealth report.

Average wealth (cash, property, financial assets minus debt) per Irish adult = €180k
Median wealth per Irish adult is €68k.

European average is €105k.

The distribution of wealth is also interesting.

In Ireland, the top 5% control 49% of the wealth.
In Europe that is 57% and worldwide it's 78%.

So Ireland has a far less uneven distribution of wealth compared to Europe as a whole and also worldwide.
Confusion. Does that mean that the average Irish adult, with wealth of €68k, is far lower than the European average of €105k?

Could you expand on your definition of average -v- median?
 

Sister Mercedes

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These figures are net of debt. Many 'middle class' people in Ireland would find themselves in the bottom decile, because negative equity could give them a negative wealth, making them poorer than someone with no assets at all.
 

Man or Mouse

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Confusion. Does that mean that the average Irish adult, with wealth of €68k, is far lower than the European average of €105k?

Could you expand on your definition of average -v- median?
His definition? They are words with meanings you should look up, not selected definitions. And you lot purport to run the country?
 

Roberto Jordan

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Some interesting findings in Credit Suisse's 2016 Wealth report.

Average wealth (cash, property, financial assets minus debt) per Irish adult = €180k
Median wealth per Irish adult is €68k.

European average is €105k.

The distribution of wealth is also interesting.

In Ireland, the top 5% control 49% of the wealth.
In Europe that is 57% and worldwide it's 78%.

So Ireland has a far less uneven distribution of wealth compared to Europe as a whole and also worldwide.
I remember reading a briefing sheet a couple of years ago that landed in my inbox and reviewed income and asset distribution in the euro zone.
It also highlighted that Ireland was nominally more equal than others.
However it included a couple of bullets to contextualise. One concerned the colonial nature of historic asset ownership ( with ,historically , a high concentration at top , a relatively small real middle class in the U.K./ US meaning of term and a whole lot of plebs who probably perceive several differentiating strata but from outside could be simply divided between those with a steady living wage and those without ) both in terms of individual wealth and continued high proportion of U.K. Ownership of capital in the domestic economy ( just like Canada)
It also noted that the peculiarities of both income declaration and asset ownership meant that high earners in Ireland likely earned more than reflected in numbers , albeit they may be holding assets at arms length , while those in devfacto ownership and control of assets may not appear to be quite as wealthy as , for example, their counterparts in the US.

The overall numbers as well as the above clarifications stuck with me as the latter two on income / assets were a surprise given the huge infrastructure and expertise here in the US available to high net worth persons to attempt similar strategies. Despite revenue being, I think, one of the better Irish government departements seems they trail the good old IRS somewhat still...
 

Roberto Jordan

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Confusion. Does that mean that the average Irish adult, with wealth of €68k, is far lower than the European average of €105k?

Could you expand on your definition of average -v- median?
Average = total wealthy/ divided by total population . How much Irish adults would be worth if everyone had an equal slice
Median = amount that 50 percentile hold i.e. Half population have more wealth , half have less
 

Sister Mercedes

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If Bill Gates walks into a bar the average wealth of everyone in the bar soars. Their median wealth only moves up a little bit.
 

ruserious

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So much of these average wealth figures include inheritance to those lucky enough to receive the family home etc.

I would like to see a report into wealth that is self generated.
 
O

Oscurito

The GINI coefficient is a better measure of inequality.

We're more equal than most eastern and southern European countries and less equal than most northern European countries.

How unequal is Ireland?

The Gini coefficient measures the inequality among values of a frequency distribution (for example, levels of income). A Gini coefficient of zero expresses perfect equality, where all values are the same (for example, where everyone has the same income). A Gini coefficient of 1 (or 100%) expresses maximal inequality among values (e.g., for a large number of people, where only one person has all the income or consumption, and all others have none,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient
 
O

Oscurito

Confusion. Does that mean that the average Irish adult, with wealth of €68k, is far lower than the European average of €105k?

Could you expand on your definition of average -v- median?
Well spotted. Median and average are very different things and posting the median of one group and the average of another seems pointless for comparison purposes.

H/T also to Sister Mercedes.
 
Last edited:

Roberto Jordan

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So much of these average wealth figures include inheritance to those lucky enough to receive the family home etc.

I would like to see a report into wealth that is self generated.
Aaaaah you might need to look at the financial best sellers list from the last few years . See Capital by Piketty and End of Economic growth by Gordon.

Not Irish specific but topic is well covered. See any one of three of four of Piketty critics for a balance
 

Analyzer

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Just wondering is there a differentiation between corporate and human identity ?

Because there is a maze of complex corporate identities in Las Vegas on the Liffey / IFSC.

Irish GDP figures are distortional with respect to income.

Do we want to fall into the same trap with respect to assets ?
 

patslatt

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So it's pretty bad everywhere!:rolleyes:
ODDS FOR SERIOUS RICHES
Take a simple probability hypothesis: acquiring serious riches requires a combination of above average brains, say odds of 4 to 1, a capability to network in business, say 7 to 1 and a strong desire to get rich, say 10 to 1. The resulting odds of 280 to 1 are the multiplier of 4 to 1, 7 to 1 and 10 to 1. In percentage terms,the seriously rich would be less than half of a percent of the population at 0.36%.
 

Novos

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Some interesting findings in Credit Suisse's 2016 Wealth report.

Average wealth (cash, property, financial assets minus debt) per Irish adult = €180k
Median wealth per Irish adult is €68k.

European average is €105k.

The distribution of wealth is also interesting.

In Ireland, the top 5% control 49% of the wealth.
In Europe that is 57% and worldwide it's 78%.

So Ireland has a far less uneven distribution of wealth compared to Europe as a whole and also worldwide.
I don't think you can reach that conclusion on those figures. You need to look at the deciles and compare them with other countries.
The top 10% own 82% of all land, for example.
The bottom 50% only own 5% of the wealth, but the bottom 30% basically don't own any.
Looking at the GINI coefficient Ireland appear to be around the European average of wealth distribution.
As Sailor said, "So it's pretty bad everywhere!"
 
O

Oscurito

If Bill Gates walks into a bar the average wealth of everyone in the bar soars. Their median wealth only moves up a little bit.
It depends on how rich the one just above the previous median is.

Assume 5 people in the bar with wealth as follows: 200k, 75k, 50k, 25k, 10k.
The median (the middle figure) is 50k.

Assume 6 people in the bar with wealth as follows: 200k, 75k, 60k, 50k, 25k, 10k.
The median (the average of the two middle figures) is 55k.
 

Novos

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ODDS FOR SERIOUS RICHES
Take a simple probability hypothesis: acquiring serious riches requires a combination of above average brains, say odds of 4 to 1, a capability to network in business, say 7 to 1 and a strong desire to get rich, say 10 to 1. The resulting odds of 280 to 1 are the multiplier of 4 to 1, 7 to 1 and 10 to 1. In percentage terms,the seriously rich would be less than half of a percent of the population at 0.36%.
Where are you getting 280/1?
4/1*7/1*10/1 = 440 or 439/1
 


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