Ireland wins Apple case

Ardillaun

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States should be making efficiencies and becoming ever cheaper to run. Quite a lot of tax avoidance comes from seeing the waste day in, year out.
Apple’s effective tax rate here was a tiny fraction of the official rate. I can‘t see the EU indefinitely tolerating a tax race to the bottom for high tech foreign companies that are decimating the locals. Countries need revenue to run. Why should the richest get off so lightly?
 


Lumpy Talbot

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No
The most efficient organisation in the world at collecting taxes from corporations is actually the Russian FSB.
 

Sync

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Apple’s effective tax rate here was a tiny fraction of the official rate. I can‘t see the EU indefinitely tolerating a tax race to the bottom for high tech foreign companies that are decimating the locals. Countries need revenue to run. Why should the richest get off so lightly?
That's a different argument to saying the court got it wrong here. It's the same as saying you think not wearing a mask should be a criminal offence, but in the meantime lets convict people who don't wear masks of arson.

Wanting to change the tax rules of the EU is a completely different discussion to wanting to find against companies and countries that are following the current tax rules of the EU.

Harmonise. Don't harmonise. Change the rules. Don't change the rules. But don't punish people for following the rules.
 

Ardillaun

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' Apple used this new capital allowance scheme in 2016 to shift its intellectual property out of Jersey into Ireland. This onshoring of €300bn of capital created the infamous 26% growth in Irish GDP. ' Until the EU tackles tax avoidance, big companies will keep getting away with it | Aidan Regan
A familiar phrase rears its smarmy head:

In 2016, the European commission found that Apple had transferred around €110bn of sales from their European operations to a head office of two subsidiaries in Ireland. These subsidiaries were registered in Ireland, but were non-resident for tax purposes – so Apple’s profits in Irish accounts weren’t taxed.
We should change the name of the country to Nonresidentfortaxpurposesland - might attract more business.
 
Last edited:

McTell

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Apple’s effective tax rate here was a tiny fraction of the official rate. I can‘t see the EU indefinitely tolerating a tax race to the bottom for high tech foreign companies that are decimating the locals. Countries need revenue to run. Why should the richest get off so lightly?

Because they might not be rich in a few years. Apple nearly went under in the late 1990s.

As it is, companies are unpaid tax collectors of tax and paye, they have VAT paperwork, there's a tax on dividends, and also this very new "corporation tax" because they exist.

The problem with stuffing the rich is we also end up stuffing the not very rich.

We started a 0% tax on exports in the mid 1960s, regardless of how rich or poor the exporter was. This policy got Intel, Apple, Microsoft Pfizer etc etc investing here. By definition they were all rich enough to invest here. If we start with rich investors and it works, then leave it to go on working.
 

Orbit v2

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Apple owes a huge sum to the US tax authorities - approximately $36 billion. It's a peculiarity of US tax law that allows them to defer paying it, but that really has nothing to do with Ireland or the EU. They will obviously defer paying it as long as they can, and especially if there is a chance that the tax rate might be lowered before they do pay it. But, that is one for the Yanks to sort it out. It has nowt to do with us.
 

hiding behind a poster

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Could be some ructions yet in FFG as they were planning on how to spend that money.
Who are "FFG"? If you mean the government, they weren't planning to spend said money, for the following reasons:

1) They expected the result that they got, the State case was very strong;

2) If the case had been lost, it'd have implications for tax policy that would cost Ireland far more than €13billion over time;

3) If the case had been lost, the €13 billion wouldn't have all been Ireland's anyway - the whole point of the Commission's case was that some of the Corporation Tax revenue paid by Apple to Ireland should've gone to other EU countries.

Thankfully Ireland won the case, and the attempted massive overreach by the Commission was proven unlawful.

But a typically trite and ill-informed post by you.
 

hiding behind a poster

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This is a good decision for the sovereign decision of the Irish government to decide its tax policies and its ability to veto any proposals to change EU law on the issue.

Why has the discussion on this already descended into personal abuse on this thread?
Because jmcc turned up. That's his level.
 

hiding behind a poster

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The government (esp. FG) hate the sovereignty of the country and only use it this one time to prevent the ordinary people from getting a few bob.

Looking after their bankster mates is all FFG are good for.
Pathetic post.
 

hiding behind a poster

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The people need a win too, not just the establishment forever filling their back pockets when they think we're not looking.

I'm all for limiting the EU; this is one of the few areas FFG are happy to slap the EU fascists hand, other than this they love EU interference and can't wait to hand over our sovereignty lock-stock and barrel.
Would you ever just listen to yourself. The public finances would be out by far more than €13 billion if we'd lost this case.
 

hiding behind a poster

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However Sinn Féin’s finance spokesperson Pearse Doherty said today is “a bad day for the taxpayer”.


“The Department of Finance may be thinking that this is a good day for themselves. Morally, this is a terrible day, the fact that the richest company in the world was able to generate over €100 billion of profits and not pay tax anywhere in the world on those profits despite the fact that the way the companies are incorporated here in Ireland.”

Doherty is wrong. If he doesn't realise that he's wrong then he's at best ill-advised and at worst stupid. If he does realise he's wrong but is saying this anyway to peddle the lie to stupid people, then he's being a d1ck.
 

Watcher2

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There's a report in today's FT that the Commission is considering using qualified majority voting to pursue low tax member states. Now this might well be just more of the usual sabre rattling that doesn't ultimately go anywhere, but it's clear that the pressure on us as well as some of the other states isn't going to ease up.

On another point, this is another defeat for Margrethe Vestager, the competition commissioner. She should consider her position at this stage.
It's at times like these that Brexit hurts us. The UK sided with us on the tax issue
 

Watcher2

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I know it wasn’t our money- the Government fought a law case to keep the money away from us-
The Irish government wrote legislation long before this case came about to keep that money from us. That's why the case actually came about.
 

Watcher2

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Ya, but economics is not really the Shinner's forte.

(I edited this post after having a quick peek at SF's 2020 manifesto:
"Sinn Féin values foreign direct investment and is committed to retaining the 12.5% corporation tax rate that has been key in attracting many multinational corporations to locate in Ireland. We would continue to support the IDA efforts to attract FDI to these shores."
A case of running with the hare and hunting with the hound?)
Except the case was noit about Ireland's 12.5% rate. It was about our 0% rate afforded certain entities.
 


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