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Ireland World Leaders- in pay from public funds.


Tomas Mor

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Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
10,389
The fact that so many people in Ireland earn huge salaries mostly at our expense exasperates me. Whether it be President; Taoiseach; Ministers; Broadcasters like Finucane, Duffy etc; Higher civil servants; Judges and others who are world leaders in terms of salary for a country the size of greater Manchester is something awesome.I know bankers paid themselves off with our funds too ! How did it come to this and where and when did it really take off. I know we had Devlin, and Buckley reports and of course, benchmarking, but I do not really have the knowledge and insight into it all. I am merely looking for knowledge and would like the views of others who may have some or most of answers that I do not, in my ignorance, have.
 
Last edited:

controller

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Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
3,176
The Taoiseach’s salary is €228,466 and we borrow €2 for every €5 we spend. So to pay Brians salary we borrow €91386, because €137079 is not enough...and that does not include expenses
 

Tomas Mor

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Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
10,389
The Taoiseach’s salary is €228,466 and we borrow €2 for every €5 we spend. So to pay Brians salary we borrow €91386, because €137079 is not enough...and that does not include expenses

Ok, I agree but he is just one , but bigger question is , how did it all come to this ?
 

controller

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Feb 25, 2009
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3,176
When you make up the rules for yourself, and the Irish people....well......


 

McDave

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Jul 10, 2008
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13,557
I personally blame Ahern and McCreevy. McCreevy had this Thatcherite view that by cutting taxes you can increase wealth-generation. But then Ahern-McCreevy decided that with the increasing tax revenues they could buy off public sector votes. The PDs did their bit for the professional classes. Between them all, it took a mere few years to establish the notion that a high-ranking civil servant and public/private sector professional should earn no less than €150,000 and the more beknighted of them a cool quarter of a mill. Natch, this included ministers, Taoisigh, judges.

All you have to do is listen to FF shills side-stepping questions about whether they should accept (further) pay cuts on the basis that their pay must be linked to certain civil service grades, to understand how much they consider income of up to 200k p.a. as an entitlement.

Translate this unwillingness to show responsible leadership across the senior echelons of the civil service and innumerable quangos, and you can see how the whole self-serving charade adds up to the ludicrous billions we could never really afford in the first place.
 

atlantic

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Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
649
It's called the welfare state and Auction politics.The bould Bertie when he became boss kicked the welfare vote buying in at 120mph ,sure isn't great using other peoples money.We are now see how destructive it is having clueless populists vote buyers in the Dail.Now isn't great that the two Brainless Brians can get loadsa rubbish money from the ECB created out of thin air to keep the the country going.
What we are seeing is a decline of the Western welfare state vote buying ,money printing,debt ridden governments that will eventually default on their debts.
The fun is only starting and people are starting to wake up
 

ppcoyle

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Joined
Oct 11, 2010
Messages
1,997
As a result of Martin Ferris drawing the attention of an empty Dáil chamber to our eminent judges I have just found out the following facts:

The US Chief Justice earns at today's exchange rates €166698, while John Murray gets €295916.

A US Supreme Court Judge gets €153789, while an Irish SC judge gets€257872.

Our High Court Judges get €243080, Circuit Court Judges get €177554, and District Court Judges get €147961.

I have no idea how many state cars and drivers our judges are entitled to. Does anybody out there know?

If salaries reflect innate judicial abily surely the time has come to try to persuade the US government to use our judges.
 

Tomas Mor

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Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
10,389
As a result of Martin Ferris drawing the attention of an empty Dáil chamber to our eminent judges I have just found out the following facts:

The US Chief Justice earns at today's exchange rates €166698, while John Murray gets €295916.

A US Supreme Court Judge gets €153789, while an Irish SC judge gets€257872.

Our High Court Judges get €243080, Circuit Court Judges get €177554, and District Court Judges get €147961.

I have no idea how many state cars and drivers our judges are entitled to. Does anybody out there know?

If salaries reflect innate judicial abily surely the time has come to try to persuade the US government to use our judges.
I know every judge (except district justices) gets an official driver, who may act as tipstaff as well. So all judges, circuit, high and supreme court have drivers. I think they supply their own cars and get paid expenses for that. Not sure if chief justice has a garda driver. The DPP and AG have. Great little country.
 

atlantic

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
649
The best thing that can happen is that the dail is empty.They are useless and only create havoc when they are in session.Our politicians are now just puppets for the banksters ,ECB and bigger Eu countries.
As a result of Martin Ferris drawing the attention of an empty Dáil chamber to our eminent judges I have just found out the following facts:

The US Chief Justice earns at today's exchange rates €166698, while John Murray gets €295916.

A US Supreme Court Judge gets €153789, while an Irish SC judge gets€257872.

Our High Court Judges get €243080, Circuit Court Judges get €177554, and District Court Judges get €147961.

I have no idea how many state cars and drivers our judges are entitled to. Does anybody out there know?

If salaries reflect innate judicial abily surely the time has come to try to persuade the US government to use our judges.
 

McDave

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
13,557
The best thing that can happen is that the dail is empty.They are useless and only create havoc when they are in session.Our politicians are now just puppets for the banksters ,ECB and bigger Eu countries.
Plenty of smaller EU countries are not in thrall to "banksters, ECB and bigger EU countries". Plenty of small countries know how to run a small country, and how to control their public spending.

Any positive suggestions atlantic? As opposed to poor-mouth "victim" posturing and a bully complex?
 

Odyessus

Well-known member
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
12,987
I personally blame Ahern and McCreevy. McCreevy had this Thatcherite view that by cutting taxes you can increase wealth-generation. But then Ahern-McCreevy decided that with the increasing tax revenues they could buy off public sector votes. The PDs did their bit for the professional classes. Between them all, it took a mere few years to establish the notion that a high-ranking civil servant and public/private sector professional should earn no less than €150,000 and the more beknighted of them a cool quarter of a mill. Natch, this included ministers, Taoisigh, judges.

All you have to do is listen to FF shills side-stepping questions about whether they should accept (further) pay cuts on the basis that their pay must be linked to certain civil service grades, to understand how much they consider income of up to 200k p.a. as an entitlement.

Translate this unwillingness to show responsible leadership across the senior echelons of the civil service and innumerable quangos, and you can see how the whole self-serving charade adds up to the ludicrous billions we could never really afford in the first place.

That's about the size of it all right. Still, when the exchequer was running multi-billion euro surpluses for years, it would have taken a very brave government to resist the demands for increased spending on everything in sight, from unions, opposition, and other "social partners".

But as Charlie Haughey once said, they were "pushing at an open door."
 

atlantic

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
649
Bully complex ha ha ha .
Can you not take it that some people can't stand what the new Europe stands for ,big government control erosion of sovereignty and destruction of liberties.Big brother is coming rapid fast.
Plenty of smaller EU countries are not in thrall to "banksters, ECB and bigger EU countries". Plenty of small countries know how to run a small country, and how to control their public spending.

Any positive suggestions atlantic? As opposed to poor-mouth "victim" posturing and a bully complex?
 
J

Justin Fair

The fact that so many people in Ireland earn huge salaries mostly at our expense exasperates me. Whether it be President; Taoiseach; Ministers; Broadcasters like Finucane, Duffy etc; Higher civil servants; Judges and others who are world leaders in terms of salary for a country the size of greater Manchester is something awesome.I know bankers paid themselves off with our funds too ! How did it come to this and where and when did it really take off. I know we had Devlin, and Buckley reports and of course, benchmarking, but I do not really have the knowledge and insight into it all. I am merely looking for knowledge and would like the views of others who may have some or most of answers that I do not, in my ignorance, have.
Can I suggest some reasons....

1. There is no respect for tax payers money

2 There is insufficient understanding among the general public that they/ we are paying for the so called service by public servants

3. Politicians react to those who shout loudest...In Ireland it is the public service who shout loudest and therefore garner an excessive share of incomes through the abuse of their dominant position

4 The so called private sector is fragmented and curtailed in its lobby function as many private sector firms get State work and are afraid to rock the boat with the oublic service

5. The figures suggest the Public service is overpaid by about 50% when the correct value is attributed to their pensions, risk and working conditions ..that means a state worker on €90k should be paid €60k ..it is the main reason for the current deficit and is a poor use of funds when there is 5000 emigrating per month and alomst 500,000 unemployed...who speaks for them?....they doint have a propaganda machine like the public service
 

paddywhack

Active member
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
280
It started really with benchmarking & McCreevy. They decided to match public servants salaries with those of the top earners in the private sector, but without taking job security and benefits into account. Furthermore, they neglected to make the necessary adjustments when those people in the private sector took large paycuts or lost their jobs. These guys like to have the best of both worlds at our expense. Their salaries and benefits are way out of line with the rest of the developed world, and are unaffordable for this country. They wouldn't dream of benchmarking their salaries against other politicians elsewhere. Thet never seem to acknowledge responsibility for anything that goes wrong and are always crowing abouttheir achievements for "their constituents", whom they are fleecing.They are all a shower of greedy hypocritical, self serving bas**rds.
 

McDave

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Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
13,557
Bully complex ha ha ha .
Can you not take it that some people can't stand what the new Europe stands for ,big government control erosion of sovereignty and destruction of liberties.Big brother is coming rapid fast.
I meant a "being bullied" complex.

I accept that many don't like the EU. I find it hard though to accept the charge that "big government" is capable of overturning our sovereign will as a member state within the EU. I'd rather see people standing for Ireland being something (through our own hard graft and good judgement) than blaming others for perceived slights and nebulous claims.

Anyway, what has the EU done to our sovereignty that even approaches the damage we've done to our sovereignty from within. And what liberties has it destroyed?
 

atlantic

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
649
They control the money supply ,they control the price of money we have no say.
They are constantly putting obstacles in the way ,of business .
They tariff the bejayaus out of products in the name of the EU make things far more expenses for poorer people to buy and just wait till the trade war starts.
They can issue an arrest warrant in any country at the drop of a hat and cart you off to jail and don't think they won't increase these powers they will.
Its like taxation ,the middle classes roaring shouting about taxing the rich,when if look at history the middle classes always end up in the highest tax bracket eventually .
Governments always run out of money,they alway kick the can down the road.
This is political and socialist creep , it's sneaky and blind siding people ,taking small bits at a time so people don't notice,but eventually alot of small pieces make a big piece and people are to late in waking up,welcome to the road to serfdom.

I meant a "being bullied" complex.

I accept that many don't like the EU. I find it hard though to accept the charge that "big government" is capable of overturning our sovereign will as a member state within the EU. I'd rather see people standing for Ireland being something (through our own hard graft and good judgement) than blaming others for perceived slights and nebulous claims.

Anyway, what has the EU done to our sovereignty that even approaches the damage we've done to our sovereignty from within. And what liberties has it destroyed?
 

Tomas Mor

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Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
10,389

needle_too

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Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
923
..... for a country the size of greater Manchester is something awesome....
Sorry, will have to take you up on that.

Ireland is substantially bigger than Greater Manchester in sq mileage.

In terms of population, nearly 9 million people live within a 1 hour drive of Manchester. Thats why Irish wages are so high.

No...hang on...thats not right..... I meant....
 

Tomas Mor

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Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
10,389
I suspect there are many factors involved here,benchmarking being one of the most prominent, when as previous posters have said, public sector salaries were raised to private ones at a time of boom, and security, pension entitlements were not taken into account,and the reverse does not happen when private sector salaries fall. Public sector unions are also strong, INTO for example - did not some teachers get a rise of about 36 % from Mr.Haughey at one stage before an election when John Wilson, Education minister was overruled ? Other unions like the garda ones with blu flu,also benefitted handsomely. We are all paying through the nose now for the recklessness, and trying to shift the blame to the Germans and EU is a bit rich.
 
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