• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please us viua the Contact us link in the footer.

Irelands prison population and non-irish nationals an analysis


Éireann go Brách

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
1,548
Irelands prison population and non-nationals an analysis

9,711 persons were sent to prison in 2007 compared to 9,700 in 2006.
Of those committed 6,447 were Irish nationals or 66.4% of the total 9,711, which is a decrease of 352 on the
corresponding 2006 figure of 6,799. Almost one third of persons committed in 2007 were non–Irish nationals.
Other EU nationals (excluding Ireland) accounted for 1,354 (13.9%) of persons committed.
Other European nationals accounted for 311 (3.2%), African nationals for 612 (6.3%), Asian nationals for 611 (6.3%) and
Central/South American nationals accounted for 303 (3.1%)

Prison commitals (2007 report)
[1]
Irish ******* 6,447 66.4%
All non-nationals 3264 33.6%
EU ********* 1126 11.6%
African ****** 612 6.3%
Asian ******* 611 6.3%
other european 311 3.2%
latin American * 303 3.1%
UK **********228 2.3%
North American 18 .02%


General population by nationality
(2006 census) [2]
Irish 3,706,683
All non-nationals 419,733
EU 163227
UK 112,548
Asian 46952
African 35326
Other european 24425
North American 14775
Latin American 6249

Ratio of Prison commital to General population

Latin American 0.04849
African ***** 0.0173
Asian ****** 0.0130
other european 0.0127
All non-nationals 0.0077
EU ********* 0.006898
UK ********* 0.002
Irish ******** 0.00174
North American 0.0012

So in summary based on Prison commitals North Americans are the most law biding and South Americans commit the most crime.
[1] Statistics-Home (click on 2007 report
[2] CSO - Statistics: Persons usually resident and present in the State on Census Night, classified by nationality and age group
 


davehiggz

Well-known member
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
1,116
This really worries me. 1 in 3 of our prisoners are not originally from Ireland. We are taking care of criminals who are the product of other countries. One nation births the mess and Ireland cleans it up.

I think we need to look at deporting many of these thugs back to where they came from and banning them from every entering Ireland again. Obviously there are legal issues surrounding EU member states however they only make up 11.6% of the population.

Over 20% of the prison population is NOT from the EU. Why not deport ALL these criminals??? Our prisons are already over bed capacity and this is having serious effects on our existing prisoners. The case where 7 prisoners were in the one cell springs to my mind, where one prisoner was beaten to death! Prisoners should be in separate cells but this can't happen if we have to look after foreign criminals also.
 

Morte

Active member
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
198
I don't think this information is actually that useful. The make-up of each of the groups would have a lot to do with the crime rates. Most crimes are committed by young males. The African and Latin American communities presumably don't have many 80 year old grannies to balance out the youngsters committing the crimes. The lowest crime rates are those ones which would have an elderly population here.
 

Malboury

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
369
I don't think this information is actually that useful. The make-up of each of the groups would have a lot to do with the crime rates. Most crimes are committed by young males. The African and Latin American communities presumably don't have many 80 year old grannies to balance out the youngsters committing the crimes. The lowest crime rates are those ones which would have an elderly population here.
That's actually a really good point that hadn't occurred to me. Thanks for that!
 

Éireann go Brách

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
1,548
I don't think this information is actually that useful. The make-up of each of the groups would have a lot to do with the crime rates. Most crimes are committed by young males. The African and Latin American communities presumably don't have many 80 year old grannies to balance out the youngsters committing the crimes. The lowest crime rates are those ones which would have an elderly population here.

AGE

There are several factors why someone would commit crime and age is a key one.
and as an immigrant population is older than a native population then
of course the ratio for them will be higher but and its a big BUT
if we look at the stats lets pick the Africans for example the ratio is 0.0173 to 0.00174
thats a factor of 10. i.e. Africans are being committed to prison at 10 times the rate Irish people
That cannot be explained by age.
If the difference was only two or three times then age might explain it but not 10 times
Also lets look at the age of the prison population (from link in OP)
approx
0-21 = 900
21-25 =1400
25-30 = 1300
30-40 =1600
40-50 = 700
50+ = 400

Also lets look at age pyramid profile of thesome of the populations at the CSO site here
http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/population/non-irish/nonirishnationalscomplete.pdf

average age
31 us
27 nigerian
29 french
27 chinese
38 uk
26 pole


These stats are a damning indictment of the utter failure of your government immigration and law and order policy's

Does anyone know why the latin american figure is so high?
 

bormotello

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
12,194

AGE

There are several factors why someone would commit crime and age is a key one.
and as an immigrant population is older than a native population then
of course the ratio for them will be higher but and its a big BUT
if we look at the stats lets pick the Africans for example the ratio is 0.0173 to 0.00174
thats a factor of 10. i.e. Africans are being committed to prison at 10 times the rate Irish people
That cannot be explained by age.
If the difference was only two or three times then age might explain it but not 10 times
Significant part of asylum seekers are former criminals, who want to start new life outside country of birth for various reasons. But not all of them received refugee status and right do not work for all their life. As result they are jumping back to their previous activities.

Does anyone know why the latin american figure is so high?
Probably because most of them are drug smugglers, captured on border, but without any intention to live in Ireland
 

Telemachus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
6,565
Website
en.wikipedia.org
Good OP.

Average annual cost per prisoner is 77k
Source: Annual cost of keeping each prisoner in jail falls to €77,222 - The Irish Times - Wed, Jun 23, 2010

33.6% of prisoners are foreigners [2007]
Average prison population 3,100 http://www.crimecouncil.gov.ie/statistics_cri_prison.html

So 1,042 foreigners lets say on average at a cost of 77k per year = €80 million per annum. That report also states the foreigner prisoner popululation may be as low as 30%. So lets say €75 mil euro to be safe.

This is about €68 in tax per person if we only consider the 1.3 million left in employment.

With the tough budget coming up, significant savings would be made by deporting all these people or outsourcing their sentences to cheaper countries.
 
Last edited:

Congalltee

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
6,210
perhaps the gardai prosecute proportionately more foreign nationals than Irish. Secondly, while fines and community service are realistic for Irish people, prison is the only effective punishment for non-Irish nationals.

That said the figures are very interesting.
 

mazzington

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
380
Does anyone know why the latin american figure is so high?
A family member of mine works occasionally as a translator for Brazilians who find themselves in police custody. They usually get done for traffic / motor offences such as not having insurance, they're notorious for it apparently. Not sure if that's the type of thing that gets you locked up and this is of course only anecdotal, but there you have it for what it's worth.
 

Keith-M

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
15,779
Website
www.allkindsofeverything.ie
So in summary based on Prison commitals North Americans are the most law biding and South Americans
Complete and utter bollocks. You have to analyse the make-up of each group forr any kind of proper comparision. Men are FAR more likely to be put into prision than women. People in certain age categories likewise.
 

Éireann go Brách

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
1,548
A family member of mine works occasionally as a translator for Brazilians who find themselves in police custody. They usually get done for traffic / motor offences such as not having insurance, they're notorious for it apparently. Not sure if that's the type of thing that gets you locked up and this is of course only anecdotal, but there you have it for what it's worth.
This is from the prison report

Sentenced committals for road traffic offences increased from 1,452 in 2006 (25.0 percent of the 2006 total) to 1,565 (24.2 percent of the 2007 total) in 2007. This represents an increase of 7.8 percent in this category

Your latin american population according to the cso is 6249 and about 4300 are from brazil.
 

Éireann go Brách

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
1,548
Complete and utter bollocks. You have to analyse the make-up of each group forr any kind of proper comparision. Men are FAR more likely to be put into prision than women. People in certain age categories likewise.
Theres no need to swear, I highlighted based in bold
i.e. based on the prison comital figure and nothing else
 

slx

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
883
The one issue that always drives me mad is that we are clearly incarcerating people for offenses that do not warrant a prison sentence.

How many of these people are in prison for non payment of fines ? Non payment of TV licenses etc etc?

We are wasting vast amounts of money on keeping people in prison when they should be doing community service that could actually benefit the community.

Also, many of the low risk prisoners e.g. people in for say tax evasion, fraud, etc could be tagged and monitored rather than locked up.

We are desperately short of prison places and people who have committed violent crimes and who are genuinely a risk to the general public are getting out all the time.

There are a whole load of trends in our prison populations that need to be monitored and checked much more carefully.
 

jtbooker

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
555
Excellent OP. Shows exactly what's happening however with the Government not actually having the slighest clue as to what the actually figures of immigration are the figures are bound to be a rough estimate at best.

A third of the prision population are immigrants...20% of which are non-EU. Why are these people not being immediately repatriated on release??
 

roc_

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
6,528
Perhaps we need to take a closer look at ourselves, our society and our laws.

We seem to be heading down a very similar road to the US where black males make up 35.4 percent of the prison population (they make up less than 10% of the poulation) and they have by far the world's higher rate of incarceration (5-8 times more than other western countries).

Why are these people disproportionally represented in prison? Is it on account of them being black (or in our case foreign nationals and the lowest socio-economic classes)? Or is it due to a highly institutionalised anglo-saxon view of what consists society being inflicted on a people who are less susceptible to institutionalisation and who tend to live according to more natural laws than our artificially constructed 'white' laws? Or something else?

I have to say that the prevailing tone on this thread is reminiscent of many of the most sordid and deplorable periods of world history. But here we go again... It's so bloody predictable. What kind of country am I living in.
 
Last edited:

bob3344

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
7,091
Perhaps we need to take a closer look at ourselves, our society and our laws.

We seem to be heading down a very similar road to the US where black males make up 35.4 percent of the prison population and they have by far the world's higher rate of incarceration.
This is such rubbish. We are not heading down anything, these people are, and for the same reasons. Poor skills, poor education lead to reduced employment opportunities and a higher likelihood of becoming involved in crime.

The black community in the US has a well known problem with family breakup which leads to the kids having no positive male role models & becoming gang members. Is this our fault too ?


Why are these people in prison? Is it on account of them being black (or in our case foreign nationals and the lowest socio-economic classes)? Or is it due to a highly institutionalised anglo-saxon view of what consists society being inflicted on a people who are less susceptible to institutionalisation and who tend to live according to more natural laws than our artificially constructed 'white' laws? Or something else?
Should we change our laws to keep them from prison ?

Our 'institutionalised anglo-saxon view of what consists society' is unfair on the poor africans ?

This is such puke inducing crap - what the hell are we supposed to do, have a multiple tier law system based on whatever corner of the world you come from ?

Haven't read such a retarded bunch of crap in ages.
 

roc_

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
6,528
This is such puke inducing crap - what the hell are we supposed to do, have a multilple tier law system based on whatever corner of the world you come from ?

Haven't read such a retarded bunch of crap in ages.
Many people have little respect for the mores of the society we have built up, and I have to say, I respect them for that.

Because our very recent political and financial history has shown up exactly the kind of society that we have in fact built up.

If you want to stay out of jail, you keep your head down; learn the technical buII$hit they teach you in school to the detriment of your overall education; work hard to enrich certain privileged sections of society, to the the extent that you have very little energy to lend a hand to your neighbour; assimilate the stereotypes propagated by the media and their political and business overlords; think 'positive' so that you are incapable of questioning or analysing the system that has you by the balls...

I am observing the same thing as the OP - the type of people and the class of people being incarcerated in our jails.

However, I've got to say that I prefer their outlook than the outlook of those who incarcerate them. Sure, the system still has these people by the balls, but at least the system has to resort to violence to make them conform. There's something refreshing and cause for hope in that I think.
 

GJG

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
3,113
Website
blog.hereshow.ie
Good OP.

Average annual cost per prisoner is 77k
Source: Annual cost of keeping each prisoner in jail falls to €77,222 - The Irish Times - Wed, Jun 23, 2010
3264 prisoners who are foreigners x 77 k is €251 million euro per Annum.

This is about €60 in tax per resident or €193 euro per person if we only consider the 1.3 million left in employment.

With the tough budget coming up, significant savings would be made by deporting all these people of outsourcing their sentences to cheaper countries.
This is complete nonsense. Telemachus should fail remedial maths, and can't seem to distinguish between committals and the actual prison population. There are not 3,264 foreign prisoners in Irish prisons, because the total prisoner population is less than that, 3080. Source

In your hysteria you have neglected the fact that most people committed to prison don't spend a full year there, presumably because almost half of them are sent there for failure to pay fines.

In any event, the unit labour cost in Irish prisons is astronomical, eight times what it is in the UK, a very similar system. Whatever else, this is not the fault of the prisoners, regardless of their origins.
 

Telemachus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
6,565
Website
en.wikipedia.org
This is complete nonsense. Telemachus should fail remedial maths, and can't seem to distinguish between committals and the actual prison population. There are not 3,264 foreign prisoners in Irish prisons, because the total prisoner population is less than that, 3080. Source

In your hysteria you have neglected the fact that most people committed to prison don't spend a full year there, presumably because almost half of them are sent there for failure to pay fines.

In any event, the unit labour cost in Irish prisons is astronomical, eight times what it is in the UK, a very similar system. Whatever else, this is not the fault of the prisoners, regardless of their origins.
I made a wrong assumption is all, I will correct the figures in my post.

I at least post a solution to the high cost unlike you.
 

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top