Ireland's Response to the Virus

wombat

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If some of the people who are complaining were in power they would have this country half way between Greece and Venezuela.
I'm more concerned by the people who are now in power wanting to turn us into a cold and wet version of Venezuela, the world owes nobody a pampered living.
 


recedite

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What is it with government ministers and Uturns ?


Heather eventually stops digging.

A govt. doing a u-turn when they are totally and obviously in the wrong, is better than a govt. that plods ahead regardless.
But why are they so incapable of being right in the first place?

Also, they are still being devious about it.

However, the minister announced that people on the payment, which was introduced when the Government lockdown the country, will now be able to go on holiday in the Green List countries.
She said her officials will review cases where people lost their payment when they travelled abroad....
She said people who fly to non Green List countries for essential travel such as funerals will also not be penalised.
People can go on holiday wherever they like, and not get penalised. Their green list has SFA to do with it.
People taking an annual holiday don't have to declare their exact destination to the govt.
 

wombat

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People can go on holiday wherever they like, and not get penalised. Their green list has SFA to do with it.
People taking an annual holiday don't have to declare their exact destination to the govt.
Nobody is being prevented from going anywhere. We are still in a public health emergency. The PUP was introduced as an incentive to self isolate. Why should that incentive be paid to people who choose to ignore public health advice?
 

recedite

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Nobody is being prevented from going anywhere. We are still in a public health emergency. The PUP was introduced as an incentive to self isolate. Why should that incentive be paid to people who choose to ignore public health advice?
The Lockdown is over. People are free to go on holiday. That is how the law stands.

IMO the PUP has outlived it usefulness, and extending it is just another mistake the govt. is making.
However, given that they have extended it, the threat of withholding it cannot be used as a stick to beat people with.
 

wombat

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People are free to go on holiday.
Nobody is being prevented from going on holiday. The question is what should the consequence of your choice be?
 

montezumaMMXX

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Many Pandemic Unemployment Payment recipients booked holidays and traveled knowing that they were allowed to do so at that time.... but are now penalised for it by way of retrospective change in policy.
Screening for welfare at airports...and no screening for the Coronavirus sums up the shambles of this government.
I was in Howth last weekend, walking around. I passed by a good few American/Canadian tourists judging by the accents (sans masks, natch) in the surrounding area, who were seated at outdoor restaurants too. We're pretty good at fining our own people for not wearing masks and dissuading our own from travelling - for whatever reason at all - and yet we're doing sod all to monitor people coming in from countries where the C19 stats are off the scale. Pissing in the wind.
 

recedite

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Nobody is being prevented from going on holiday. The question is what should the consequence of your choice be?
You tell me?
If there is going to be a travel ban, it should apply to foreigners as well as to Irish people, and it cannot just apply to those who are on some form of social welfare. That is the crux of the matter.

During the Lockdown we had actual legislation preventing Irish people from moving around within Ireland. But people were still flying in and out of the country without even getting their temperatures checked.
Right now we have a "request" to quarantine, for new arrivals, that is not enforced.
We also have some govt. "advice" not to travel abroad at all. There is no travel ban.
 

james toney

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they have changed the rules again you now can travel to green list countries if you are on PUP/Job Seekers
Thousands of bar workers paid for themselves and families to go on holidays pre pandemic.
Only to be left with a decision to not travel and lose their money (Due to conflicting government advice again)...or go on holiday and salvage something.
Then to be told they could lose their PUP money by government if they were not looking for work......what were they supposed to do...look for work in already closed bars?
Many professions and people were in the same situation...the coalition of chaos don't have a clue what they are doing.
 

oleoleole

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I'm more concerned by the people who are now in power wanting to turn us into a cold and wet version of Venezuela, the world owes nobody a pampered living.
Venezuela have loads of oil. If SF get into power we will be far worse off than a cold wet Venezuela.
 

midlander12

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That is not true.

She was a member of government that rescued this country from bankruptcy.

If some of the people who are complaining were in power they would have this country half way between Greece and Venezuela.
Sadly I think we're already there.
 

shiel

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Sadly I think we're already there.
That is very far from the truth.

The following are the Figures of GDP per capita for Greece Ireland and Venezuela.

Greece 19,582
Ireland 78,661
Venezuela 16,055

Ireland made a miracle recovery since the collapse in 2010.

Where we could be is shown by the figures of Greece and Venezuela each of which have more resources, better climate and bigger populations.
 

wombat

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Latest numbers according to RTE - 2500 payments stopped. 85 holidaymakers, the rest were leaving permanently, inspectors doing their jobs.
 

Dearghoul

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Thousands of bar workers paid for themselves and families to go on holidays pre pandemic.
Only to be left with a decision to not travel and lose their money (Due to conflicting government advice again)...or go on holiday and salvage something.
Then to be told they could lose their PUP money by government if they were not looking for work......what were they supposed to do...look for work in already closed bars?
Many professions and people were in the same situation...the coalition of chaos don't have a clue what they are doing.
Well I dont know.

Maybe the words, 'global pandemic' and 'annual holiday' dont sit well with me.
I'm not trying to down people that consider a foreign holiday an essential of life, but you know...global pandemic and all of that...
 

carlovian

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That is not true.

She was a member of government that rescued this country from bankruptcy.

If some of the people who are complaining were in power they would have this country half way between Greece and Venezuela.
Latest numbers according to RTE - 2500 payments stopped. 85 holidaymakers, the rest were leaving permanently, inspectors doing their jobs.
Wow. That was an incredibly quick review.

Not sure I trust any figures from this government.

Doesnt the 2500 number seem a bit rounded?
 

midlander12

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That is very far from the truth.

The following are the Figures of GDP per capita for Greece Ireland and Venezuela.

Greece 19,582
Ireland 78,661
Venezuela 16,055

Ireland made a miracle recovery since the collapse in 2010

Where we could be is shown by the figures of Greece and Venezuela each of which have more resources, better climate and bigger populations.
I was being somewhat ironic, of course we are better off than Greece or Venezuela (and I would also have thought Greece would be further ahead of Venezuela that your figures suggest).

However, I think the Irish GDP per capita will be very much lower for 2020 and future years, taking into account the economic meltdown of the last few months, including a 24% unemployment rate and many more largely dependent on the State thanks to wages subsidy schemes. Much of this was unavoidable (there will be debate about whether a more decisive reopening might have averted some of the damage), but there is little doubt that the 'miracle recovery' of the last few years (which was tainted by housing shortages and a dire health service) has been largely if not totally reversed in the past few months.
 

wombat

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Doesnt the 2500 number seem a bit rounded?
Yes but its RTE reporting something they say they saw. However, it doesn't help their narrative as it sounds like most whose payments have been stopped no longer live here. The SW dept have had many years of practice at dealing with dodgy claims from welfare tourists.
 

recedite

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Wow. That was an incredibly quick review.

Not sure I trust any figures from this government.

Doesnt the 2500 number seem a bit rounded?
Like the one million extra breath tests the Gardai estimated they had done?
Anyway, if you wanted to know whether social welfare recipients have skipped the country permanently, there must be better ways of doing it than hiding behind the luggage at Dublin airport with a pair of binoculars.
 

Dearghoul

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Venezuela have loads of oil. If SF get into power we will be far worse off than a cold wet Venezuela
How do you recon that one?

Their weather is a matter for themselves.

I'd imagine that one of the few advantages of a SF government would be a trade arrangement with Venezuela foisted on the EU whereby we might for once have a sufficiency of resources of that type, unless of course Trump decides to take Venezuela out in a fit of Macho pre election posturing.
 

Watcher2

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You tell me?
If there is going to be a travel ban, it should apply to foreigners as well as to Irish people, and it cannot just apply to those who are on some form of social welfare. That is the crux of the matter.

During the Lockdown we had actual legislation preventing Irish people from moving around within Ireland. But people were still flying in and out of the country without even getting their temperatures checked.
Right now we have a "request" to quarantine, for new arrivals, that is not enforced.
We also have some govt. "advice" not to travel abroad at all. There is no travel ban.
But people abroa€ are not in receipt of PUP.
 


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