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Emily Davison

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From October the travel will be decided based on this if I understood correctly.
So any European country with less than 25 per 100,000 will be green. There also Amber and Red.

Oddly I see Ireland is 48 per 100,000. But one of my brothers told me yesterday Dublin is at 95. (I need to clarify where he got that information but I know he’s not wrong)

Does the much anticipated Roadmap state what figure puts you into which of the 5 categories.
 

Emily Davison

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Here’s an Irish link. What I can’t find is the Irish rate per 100,000 per county. But table 2 is the most interesting. Dublin the oercentage at 47% is way ahead of the next level which is Kildare at 8%. (I heard Limerick was bad but not based on that table) . What percentage was Kildare when they went into lockdown.

 

montezumaMMXX

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- how did Donnelly get tested so fast
- why was he tested
- how did he get the results in hours
- as far as I’m aware you need a second test after a certain number of days to be certain you don’t have it
- why did the cabinet go against its own health advice on hearing Donnelly was sick, you don’t self isolate because someone is sick, only if you're a close contact of someone who has tested positive
It also meant that no-one in the cabinet had to answer any difficult questions about their *clear* roadmap for the country. Instant sickie for all :)
 

montezumaMMXX

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Meanwhile, in Sweden...

Time will tell, of course - but it seems as if the Swedish approach might have been the correct one. We'll have the spectres of lockdown and social restrictions breathing down our necks in this country until such a time when a vaccine comes along - which could be a long way off.
 

The OD

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Publicans have been courting and lobbying FFG for decades. Now we have the current shambles. I hope they take note. We are also looking at a decimation of pubs via an increase in the number of hotels being built, Dublin will be nothing but gift shops and 'boutique hotels' if something is not done about it.

We also had their focus on jockeying for position during the coalitions talks rather than being laser focused on the virus and the resultant economic fallout.

Now we have quite possibly two of the biggest morons in the form of Martin and Donnelly at the helm, its no wonder things are all over the place.

I have no idea if doing stuff any different might have been effective and made things better but I have a strong feeling that having them two confusing twits is making things far worse.

I agree with lockdown to a point but I also agree that Dublin needs our pubs, until the lockdown I think I spent more time having coffee and soup at lunch in a pub than pints in the evening so its not even a drink thing.
 

Super Caley

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Here’s an Irish link. What I can’t find is the Irish rate per 100,000 per county. But table 2 is the most interesting. Dublin the oercentage at 47% is way ahead of the next level which is Kildare at 8%. (I heard Limerick was bad but not based on that table) . What percentage was Kildare when they went into lockdown.

Not quite

Firstly that table, in fact as far as I can see that entire document, reports cumulative data, that is cases dating right back to March, so it is merging data from the very beginning of the outbreak, when testing was at best haphazard, with data from today, making it (I would argue) all but useless. Makes me wonder why they are still churning out data like this.

Also the % figures in table 2 are the raw % of all cases from each county; so Dublin being way ahead just tells us that there are a lot of people in Dublin compared with anywhere else. (Leitrim has hardly any)

What would be really interesting and relevant would be the 14 day data, per country by population, but I can't seem to be able to find that anywhere.

If any one does have a link to that, maybe they could post it
 

montezumaMMXX

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Publicans have been courting and lobbying FFG for decades. Now we have the current shambles. I hope they take note. We are also looking at a decimation of pubs via an increase in the number of hotels being built, Dublin will be nothing but gift shops and 'boutique hotels' if something is not done about it..
Dublin's becoming a shell of a kit-town like the ones you see all over the UK. The same drab multi-nationals everywhere being the only places that might weather this storm. With the pubs gone, the tourists are gone. The Irish pub atmosphere and the ceoil and craic are really the only things that set Dublin apart from other cities. Hell of a re-building, re-branding and re-thinking project that needs to take place pretty quickly to put it back on the map.
 

Rural

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His father, Tommy who owed the pub with Paddy Kennedy, died earlier this year. A lovely man. I have been drinking in Grogans since they bought it back in the 1970s. It and Peter's pub are among the few real pubs left in that area.
Sorry to hear that, he was a lovely man. He gave local artists some much needed and free exposure by displaying their work.
 

AyaanMyHero

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Meanwhile, in Sweden...

Time will tell, of course - but it seems as if the Swedish approach might have been the correct one. We'll have the spectres of lockdown and social restrictions breathing down our necks in this country until such a time when a vaccine comes along - which could be a long way off.
A few points on this..,

Sweden is sure bucking the current trend.

There are people who say lockdowns have no effect whatsoever and there are countries that did strict lockdowns where death volume is extremely high. However, Sweden seems to stand as evidence against that point. They had plenty of deaths early on but their case number trajectory now is way different than most other European countries who did lockdown. Is lockdown policy the only difference between Sweden and the rest of Europe ? Probably not.

Another point that is made regsrds the contention that PCR tests are mostly picking up dead virus fragments and that this explains the large case count without commensurate deaths associated. Again, Sweden with much lower case numbers is evidence against that contention.
 

Emily Davison

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What would be really interesting and relevant would be the 14 day data, per country by population, but I can't seem to be able to find that anywhere.

If any one does have a link to that, maybe they could post it
Well it must exist and I'd like it too.

Contrary to what I said earlier, and which I was informed of, according to Pascal Donohoe on Morning Ireland the Green list is still in place. It will be replaced with a new list (adding or subtractin countries) and then they will love to the Traffic Light System.

Apparently there is some travel incentive in Ireland - Donohoe said people in Dublin are not to travel and to try and negotiate cancellations with hotels.

He also said Dublin based people who have weddings outside Dublin are not to have them (I presume that includes Dublin). So much for level Two then Dublin.
 

Emily Davison

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It also meant that no-one in the cabinet had to answer any difficult questions about their *clear* roadmap for the country. Instant sickie for all :)
They went completely against their own advice when they closed down the Dail yesterday, and these are the people in charge. Mad stuff. If everybody did that when a person went for a covid test every shop, supermarket, restaurant, company, industry, workplace, school in the country would have to close. Very bad example they set. Complete chaos and panic it looks like. Headless chickens the whole lot of them.
 

Emily Davison

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A few points on this..,

Sweden is sure bucking the current trend.

There are people who say lockdowns have no effect whatsoever and there are countries that did strict lockdowns where death volume is extremely high. However, Sweden seems to stand as evidence against that point. They had plenty of deaths early on but their case number trajectory now is way different than most other European countries who did lockdown. Is lockdown policy the only difference between Sweden and the rest of Europe ? Probably not.
The other thing to note about Sweden is no mask wearing. Also the high death rates at teh beinning were in care home, the Swedish experts acknowledged that from near the beginning. If they'd managed that better their rates would be excellent. It's clear to me they are going for herd immunity and personal responsibility. Not telling 70 year olds to stay in their homes and frightening the living daylights out of them.
 

greencharade

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Another point that is made regsrds the contention that PCR tests are mostly picking up dead virus fragments and that this explains the large case count without commensurate deaths associated. Again, Sweden with much lower case numbers is evidence against that contention.
Is Sweden still testing at high levels?
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Publicans have been courting and lobbying FFG for decades. Now we have the current shambles. I hope they take note. We are also looking at a decimation of pubs via an increase in the number of hotels being built, Dublin will be nothing but gift shops and 'boutique hotels' if something is not done about it.

We also had their focus on jockeying for position during the coalitions talks rather than being laser focused on the virus and the resultant economic fallout.

Now we have quite possibly two of the biggest morons in the form of Martin and Donnelly at the helm, its no wonder things are all over the place.

I have no idea if doing stuff any different might have been effective and made things better but I have a strong feeling that having them two confusing twits is making things far worse.

I agree with lockdown to a point but I also agree that Dublin needs our pubs, until the lockdown I think I spent more time having coffee and soup at lunch in a pub than pints in the evening so its not even a drink thing.
Even if the pubs in Dublin City open, they are fncked if people do not go back to offices. Dublin has been built for offices, and has been planned so poorly that there is little by way of local community life. Dublin is paying the price for crap planning.
 

Super Caley

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A few points on this..,

Sweden is sure bucking the current trend.

There are people who say lockdowns have no effect whatsoever and there are countries that did strict lockdowns where death volume is extremely high. However, Sweden seems to stand as evidence against that point. They had plenty of deaths early on but their case number trajectory now is way different than most other European countries who did lockdown. Is lockdown policy the only difference between Sweden and the rest of Europe ? Probably not.

Another point that is made regsrds the contention that PCR tests are mostly picking up dead virus fragments and that this explains the large case count without commensurate deaths associated. Again, Sweden with much lower case numbers is evidence against that contention.
Agreed. I'm not convinced by the "old dead virus fragments" theory.

Another argument against it is that (in Ireland at least) the rate of positive tests has risen from something like 0.5% back in July to 1.8% now. I don't see how that can be accounted for by simply more testing. Rather, I think the recent rise in cases is real, but the so far modest rise in deaths and hospitalisations etc suggests that the virus is not as lethal as first feared, with an infection fatality rate coming out at the lower end of the estimates from March-April.
 

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