Irish Air Corps to get new aircraft

Ireniall

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It’s the doomsday scenario that is disgusting, but it’s a scenario that is possible. Attack helicopters(which btw I never mentioned)are just a tool that are suitable for use in particular situations. They provide a means of significantly bolstering the strength of ground units in that they enhance their ability to change position and likewise reduce that of the opposition. Even their very presence causes that effect even without the use of any weaponry. They increase the tactical options of the local commander and as such are a significant force multiplier.

I do not think it is inconceivable or disgusting that the very notion of their deployment against any significant paramilitary force in a doomsday scenario. It may seem fantastical or grotesque to even talk about such a scenario at this moment but we have not idea what could be a credible scenario in 15 years time. A large part of the raison d’être of the military is dealing with extreme negatives. Defence planning should never be based on optimistic conceptions.
I'm well aware that you didn't mention attack helicopters nor any aggression towards any one. I was referring to other posters there. To my way of thinking no doomsday scenario will lead to a united Ireland and any suggestion of its imminence would see a hurried withdrawal of Irish forces from Protestant areas assuming any had moved north to begin with. There would then be a crude re-division of Ireland with huge areas of NI coming south while the rest would be a stateless no-mans-land which was not recognized by the UN or any other government and would become an economic disaster zone unless something was agreed quickly. The whole thing is just totally unthinkable.

I think that a vote for unity would make the majority of Unionists very fearful ,knowing that the UK would be obliged to remove their support and leave them to deal with us on their own. We would merely have to be a bit friendly to them to induce a collective sigh of relief on their part. I doubt that a Border Poll would take place in which a vote for unity would come as a total surprise and I don't think one would take place in which every one was not re-assured and mollified. In fact I think there would be cast iron guarantees made in advance over the most serious stuff and all in all I think that no defence planning nor materiel acquisition should be made with anything to do with the north in mind. We should prepare our armed forces so that they would make up a useful addition to our EU allies and perhaps with UN duty in mind-nothing else.
 


Ireniall

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The vast majority see the Irish as backward thinking bogtrotters , and want nothing to do with them , I could see a lot of them heading over to mainland Britain , obviously some will stay but they won't be happy .
Have you got something stuck up your hole or something? I suspect that most are all too aware of the reversal of fortunes which has taken place on this island with regard to the level of economic and social advancement in the two states. You must be gone a long time if you are not aware of this yourself. Most who leave in a fit of pique will be back to their native land within a short period and they will be happy if we have a bit of respect for them-which we will.
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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I'm well aware that you didn't mention attack helicopters nor any aggression towards any one. I was referring to other posters there. To my way of thinking no doomsday scenario will lead to a united Ireland and any suggestion of its imminence would see a hurried withdrawal of Irish forces from Protestant areas assuming any had moved north to begin with. There would then be a crude re-division of Ireland with huge areas of NI coming south while the rest would be a stateless no-mans-land which was not recognized by the UN or any other government and would become an economic disaster zone unless something was agreed quickly. The whole thing is just totally unthinkable.

I think that a vote for unity would make the majority of Unionists very fearful ,knowing that the UK would be obliged to remove their support and leave them to deal with us on their own. We would merely have to be a bit friendly to them to induce a collective sigh of relief on their part. I doubt that a Border Poll would take place in which a vote for unity would come as a total surprise and I don't think one would take place in which every one was not re-assured and mollified. In fact I think there would be cast iron guarantees made in advance over the most serious stuff and all in all I think that no defence planning nor materiel acquisition should be made with anything to do with the north in mind. We should prepare our armed forces so that they would make up a useful addition to our EU allies and perhaps with UN duty in mind-nothing else.
.....“perhaps with UN duty in mind-mind” could involve NI. Bosnia was a civilised developed state before it descended into chaos. The inability and reluctance of the international community to intervene effectively was partly why that conflict was so barbarous and extended. Having an Irish military that could provide a sizeable contribution(.....in suitable areas) would help in the mounting of effective international intervention to avoid the worst doomsday scenarios.

Irish defence planning I presume is not publicly availble information....even if it was I expect that any such planning in relation to NI would be extremely sensitive.....however I think it would be very negligent to not take NI into consideration as part of that planning. Indeed I expect the acquisition of these particular new aircraft per the title thread is partly based on the potential need for improved surveillance capability along the border.....and not just for customs purposes.
 

Ireniall

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.....“perhaps with UN duty in mind-mind” could involve NI. Bosnia was a civilised developed state before it descended into chaos. The inability and reluctance of the international community to intervene effectively was partly why that conflict was so barbarous and extended. Having an Irish military that could provide a sizeable contribution(.....in suitable areas) would help in the mounting of effective international intervention to avoid the worst doomsday scenarios.

Irish defence planning I presume is not publicly availble information....even if it was I expect that any such planning in relation to NI would be extremely sensitive.....however I think it would be very negligent to not take NI into consideration as part of that planning. Indeed I expect the acquisition of these particular new aircraft per the title thread is partly based on the potential need for improved surveillance capability along the border.....and not just for customs purposes.
I just can't agree. I simply don't think that they would attempt to take anything other then their own majority areas-a nightmare in itself. They would know that this alone would be risky so I could not see them make an attempt to take any Catholic or evenly mixed areas. They would be left with a disjointed patchwork and would need to travel through 'enemy' territory to even get to them. The only way such a situation could ever be normalised would be through agreement with the internationally recognised legitimate government and I would hope that Dublin would have enough sense to concede de facto independence of some sort for these areas with guaranteed free movement between them through Irish territory and of course vice versa.

Why they would feel the need to take up arms in order to bring this about when they could likely negotiate this anyway? would be my first question. Secondly the GFA is still in place after unity and the NI state continues to exist with a very evenly matched population and EU oversight and the rest. Nothing real would likely change at all. There would be negotiations about it ongoing for years and a gradual British withdrawal. In my view the only immediate change would be re-entry to the EU which by then might easily be welcomed equally by both communities. To my mind the chances of a stand up conflict is vanishingly small and any lower level resistance will not be resolved with military hardware.
 

paddycomeback

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I'm well aware that you didn't mention attack helicopters nor any aggression towards any one. I was referring to other posters there. To my way of thinking no doomsday scenario will lead to a united Ireland and any suggestion of its imminence would see a hurried withdrawal of Irish forces from Protestant areas assuming any had moved north to begin with. There would then be a crude re-division of Ireland with huge areas of NI coming south while the rest would be a stateless no-mans-land which was not recognized by the UN or any other government and would become an economic disaster zone unless something was agreed quickly. The whole thing is just totally unthinkable.

I think that a vote for unity would make the majority of Unionists very fearful ,knowing that the UK would be obliged to remove their support and leave them to deal with us on their own. We would merely have to be a bit friendly to them to induce a collective sigh of relief on their part. I doubt that a Border Poll would take place in which a vote for unity would come as a total surprise and I don't think one would take place in which every one was not re-assured and mollified. In fact I think there would be cast iron guarantees made in advance over the most serious stuff and all in all I think that no defence planning nor materiel acquisition should be made with anything to do with the north in mind. We should prepare our armed forces so that they would make up a useful addition to our EU allies and perhaps with UN duty in mind-nothing else.
Or you could just go back to Scotland.
 

puffin

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Why can an independent sovereign state no look after its own airspace. Why is it dependent on its former colonial boss, to defend its neutrality and its independants🏋🏾‍♀️
 

puffin

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I'm well aware that you didn't mention attack helicopters nor any aggression towards any one. I was referring to other posters there. To my way of thinking no doomsday scenario will lead to a united Ireland and any suggestion of its imminence would see a hurried withdrawal of Irish forces from Protestant areas assuming any had moved north to begin with. There would then be a crude re-division of Ireland with huge areas of NI coming south while the rest would be a stateless no-mans-land which was not recognized by the UN or any other government and would become an economic disaster zone unless something was agreed quickly. The whole thing is just totally unthinkable.

I think that a vote for unity would make the majority of Unionists very fearful ,knowing that the UK would be obliged to remove their support and leave them to deal with us on their own. We would merely have to be a bit friendly to them to induce a collective sigh of relief on their part. I doubt that a Border Poll would take place in which a vote for unity would come as a total surprise and I don't think one would take place in which every one was not re-assured and mollified. In fact I think there would be cast iron guarantees made in advance over the most serious stuff and all in all I think that no defence planning nor materiel acquisition should be made with anything to do with the north in mind. We should prepare our armed forces so that they would make up a useful addition to our EU allies and perhaps with UN duty in mind-nothing else.
It would take a standing army of sixty thousand rotating every four months to subdue Protestant areas , on an ongoing basis,.
 

Ireniall

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Twenty on twenty training twenty on reserve
Yes - and you know well the way these things have of getting totally out of hand when they start down that road at all. Body bags heading south and the rest. Who wants that kind of unity.. I mean I understand that if there's a majority in favour of unity it must happen but the victors in such a scenario have an absolute obligation to be pragmatic and generous. If they cannot be generous by allowing British symbolism to be part of the new Ireland then they need to be generous in allowing the Protestant areas to essentially rule themselves from Stormont
 

Dame_Enda

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Yes - and you know well the way these things have of getting totally out of hand when they start down that road at all. Body bags heading south and the rest. Who wants that kind of unity.. I mean I understand that if there's a majority in favour of unity it must happen but the victors in such a scenario have an absolute obligation to be pragmatic and generous. If they cannot be generous by allowing British symbolism to be part of the new Ireland then they need to be generous in allowing the Protestant areas to essentially rule themselves from Stormont
I sortof agree with you there on autonomy for Protestant areas that want it, but I think the strongly Nationalist areas should come under direct rule from Dublin. I'm not comfortable with too much British symbolism in the new state but again I might make an exception for former Unionist areas.
 

puffin

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I sortof agree with you there on autonomy for Protestant areas that want it, but I think the strongly Nationalist areas should come under direct rule from Dublin. I'm not comfortable with too much British symbolism in the new state but again I might make an exception for former Unionist areas.
At my last count eight or nine district council areas are strongly Unionist, are you going risk attendant instability to remove Union Flags from Council Offices, I don’t think so.
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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Two more Russian Airforce aircraft, Tupolev 160s, down along our west coast on Thursday. The the below map is accurate then their closest point was about 25 miles west of Kerry.

BlackjackInterceptMarch13_40.jpg

Some great photos from the intercepting RAF aircraft...NATO designation Blackjacks but the Russians prefer to call them White swans...

494AEF79-89C3-4668-B416-44D012BE31AE.jpeg

E95E0A00-60EE-4D8F-ADD6-CDD24446052F.jpeg

39A02297-A0DA-4520-AAB1-6DAA4C49F032.jpeg

According to RAF Air Chief Marshal Mike Wigston....

“These Russian bombers do not comply with international air traffic rules, are a hazard to airliners and are not welcome in our airspace......RAF Typhoons, alongside our NATO allies, ensured these Russian aircraft posed no hazard.”

NATO fighters intercept Russian bombers three times in one week
 

Lord Talbot

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Russia is a pest, but no more than that.

Its a weak country desperately trying to project strength with these petulant stunts.
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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Some very interesting comments from this Irish Times interview with retired Lt. Gen. Frederick "Ben" Hodges, the former commander of both United States Army Europe (USAREUR) and the NATO Allied Land Command. He os currently the Pershing Chair in Strategic Studies at the Center for European Policy Analysis (CEPA). He sees the activity of Russian aircraft poking around off one west coast and the major expansion of the Russian embassy in Dublin as part of their efforts to seek out and exploit any weaknesses in European institutions and cohesion.

Specifically about these Russian aircraft he said that....

....the Irish Government “should be raising hell” about the Russian flights “in every available venue”, including the United Nations. And he added that the Taoiseach or Minister for Foreign Affairs should be calling the Russian ambassador in to meet them over the incidents.

“They are doing this without their transponders turned on which is incredibly dangerous and reckless.
He expects this Russian activity to continue....

(They will) “continue testing to see how we respond, to continue to do reconnaissance, to map out the contours of what the radar coverage is and what can we do. This all goes into their big data effort to use for a rainy day.”

He explicitly sees increased interest in our general area as part of the Russian response to BREXIT....

“The growth of the Russian embassy in Dublin is not a coincidence. Russia is paying more and more attention to Ireland because of the change in dynamics because of Brexit”.

Others are taking more of a strategic interest in us than we are used to.

Russia testing Nato by breaching Irish airspace – ex-US general via The Irish Times https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/russia-testing-nato-by-breaching-irish-airspace-ex-us-general-1.4205196
 


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