Irish American Conservative Boors

Jack Walsh

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Jun 26, 2015
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10,468
Why Are All the Conservative Loudmouths Irish-American?

This article is in the latest edition of Newsweek

I found it excellent.

I was struck by this in particular

My connection to Irishness is thus self-generated, but it is real. I’ve lived there, and I care about the place, enough to notice that Irish-Americans are very different from the Irish-in-Ireland, and often have no sense of themselves as connected to the island and its history.

What happened to Irish America, that closed, intense world I know mainly from movies and books? How could I make sense of its drying up and blowing away, unmourned?

Although the author is too kind to explicitly say it, the central tenet is very simplistic
Having spent 150 years striving to be fully accepted at the very top stratas, the generation (1930s to 1950ws) who finally got them there raised a generation of unappealing loudmouth conservatives who essentially have no Irishness, save for the occasional glib remark when suits "oh I have plenty of Irish fighting qualities in me..etc"

Overall I found the article depressingly and brutally honest.
So many Irish Americans have become arseholes!
 


Wascurito

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While all the conspiracy theorists fret about Jews taking over the world, the Irish sneaked (snuck?) up on the inside.

Simples. :cool:
 

GDPR

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Why Are All the Conservative Loudmouths Irish-American?

This article is in the latest edition of Newsweek

I found it excellent.

I was struck by this in particular

My connection to Irishness is thus self-generated, but it is real. I’ve lived there, and I care about the place, enough to notice that Irish-Americans are very different from the Irish-in-Ireland, and often have no sense of themselves as connected to the island and its history.

What happened to Irish America, that closed, intense world I know mainly from movies and books? How could I make sense of its drying up and blowing away, unmourned?

Although the author is too kind to explicitly say it, the central tenet is very simplistic
Having spent 150 years striving to be fully accepted at the very top stratas, the generation (1930s to 1950ws) who finally got them there raised a generation of unappealing loudmouth conservatives who essentially have no Irishness, save for the occasional glib remark when suits "oh I have plenty of Irish fighting qualities in me..etc"

Overall I found the article depressingly and brutally honest.
So many Irish Americans have become arseholes!
I've made a study of this and have come to the conclusion that it's a ying and yang thing.

It's a counterbalance to all the actually Irish loudmouth liberal arseholes.
 

Wascurito

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There are lots Irish-American liberals too. Actually, there are lots of Irish-Americans who are as English, Norwegian, German or Italian as they are Irish but the Irishness seems to be The Thing for them.
 

Jack Walsh

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Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
10,468
There are lots Irish-American liberals too. Actually, there are lots of Irish-Americans who are as English, Norwegian, German or Italian as they are Irish but the Irishness seems to be The Thing for them.
Read the article, he makes many of these points too
 

Wascurito

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Read the article, he makes many of these points too
I'm reading it right now. I have to say that - with one exception - all my Irish-American cousins (and I have DOZENS) are exceedingly sound.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Messages
15,365
Why Are All the Conservative Loudmouths Irish-American?

This article is in the latest edition of Newsweek

I found it excellent.

I was struck by this in particular

My connection to Irishness is thus self-generated, but it is real. I’ve lived there, and I care about the place, enough to notice that Irish-Americans are very different from the Irish-in-Ireland, and often have no sense of themselves as connected to the island and its history.

What happened to Irish America, that closed, intense world I know mainly from movies and books? How could I make sense of its drying up and blowing away, unmourned?

Although the author is too kind to explicitly say it, the central tenet is very simplistic
Having spent 150 years striving to be fully accepted at the very top stratas, the generation (1930s to 1950ws) who finally got them there raised a generation of unappealing loudmouth conservatives who essentially have no Irishness, save for the occasional glib remark when suits "oh I have plenty of Irish fighting qualities in me..etc"

Overall I found the article depressingly and brutally honest.
So many Irish Americans have become arseholes!
There was certainly this then and now:
[video=youtube;lYlqY-MDq18]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYlqY-MDq18[/video]
Others are simply Irish only by distant ancestry and/or via intermarriage and have no meaningful connection to it.

But there's other reasons.

Whilst some things are dynamic about the States, other aspects remain archaic. A basic is passage of generations. Irish American right wingers that retain some or many 'Irish' aspects are archaic, retaining religious and socially authoritarian old stuff whereas Ireland is modernising on that. Many old stock ethnic Germans are like that too like the 'Pennsylvania Dutch' and in the Midwest.

There's also how America has created 'winners' and 'losers' in its own right. Past generations and the sheer size and resources of the nation--along with being spared invasion and incineration by strong powers given its geography. From that, two types of Irish right wingers have come to the fore.

Some Irish American right wingers are 'lace curtain' Irish. They're essentially trust fund brats and otherwise beneficiaries of the hard work done by their predecessors. Those right wingers fall into the Social Darwinist/Robber Baron mindsets, acting like they hit a home run when they were pampered into their lifestyle with all the pretentiousness, sense of entitlement, exploitation and gombeenism that comes with it.

Other Irish American right wingers are 'shanty Irish'. They're begrudgers and bitter because they've p!ssed away the massive head starts being born in the States gives them. Whereas their Irish ancestors crossed the ocean penniless seeking opportunity, these wasters won't migrate their arses across their own states or to other regions where opportunities exist or basically take advantage of their born situations in the US. Yet, they'll begrudge the Hispanic and other immigrants who like their ancestors take risks and relocate into the US to work jobs they won't do in places and/or where the jobs are, and otherwise look to blame anything and take their angers out on anyone else for their own failures. It's a pathetic case of lazy scapegoating and having gone soft and looking for excuses.

Conservative author Kevin Williamson nailed the 'shanty' types well with the rise of Trump and GOP white grievance mongering about the economic 'has been/never were' areas of the US:

The truth about these dysfunctional, downscale communities is that they deserve to die. Economically, they are negative assets. Morally, they are indefensible. Forget all your cheap theatrical Bruce Springsteen crap. Forget your sanctimony about struggling Rust Belt factory towns and your conspiracy theories about the wily Orientals stealing our jobs. Forget your goddamned gypsum, and, if he has a problem with that, forget Ed Burke, too. The white American underclass is in thrall to a vicious, selfish culture whose main products are misery and used heroin needles. Donald Trump’s speeches make them feel good. So does OxyContin. What they need isn’t analgesics, literal or political.

They need real opportunity, which means that they need real change, which means that they need U-Haul. If you want to live, get out of Garbutt.
Donald Trump & White Working Class Dysfunction: Real Opportunity Needed, Not Trump | National Review


There's a caution lesson here to the Irish at home though. We've all been witness to some changes in attitudes with Ireland's rise to the First World. Some have gone 'shanty' and like to blame the Poles and other immigrants when they won't do the kinds of work people from the 1980s and before once travelled to do, never mind would have done at home, etc. Some have gotten 'lace curtain' about working class people, etc.
 
Last edited:

RasherHash

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
25,614
Why Are All the Conservative Loudmouths Irish-American?

This article is in the latest edition of Newsweek

I found it excellent.

I was struck by this in particular

My connection to Irishness is thus self-generated, but it is real. I’ve lived there, and I care about the place, enough to notice that Irish-Americans are very different from the Irish-in-Ireland, and often have no sense of themselves as connected to the island and its history.

What happened to Irish America, that closed, intense world I know mainly from movies and books? How could I make sense of its drying up and blowing away, unmourned?

Although the author is too kind to explicitly say it, the central tenet is very simplistic
Having spent 150 years striving to be fully accepted at the very top stratas, the generation (1930s to 1950ws) who finally got them there raised a generation of unappealing loudmouth conservatives who essentially have no Irishness, save for the occasional glib remark when suits "oh I have plenty of Irish fighting qualities in me..etc"

Overall I found the article depressingly and brutally honest.
So many Irish Americans have become arseholes!
Any examples?
 

Mick Mac

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Jan 6, 2017
Messages
7,851
Hmm so he only knows about them from books and movies.

Did he watch the Departed and have tinned ham before he wrote his article.
 

Wascurito

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Apr 18, 2017
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7,298
I'm still reading the article but not all "Conservative loudmouths" are Irish-Americans. The loudest one of them all** has no connections to Ireland.

**No-one's louder than him, believe me. Everyone says it, bigly.
 

Notachipanoaktree

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Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
8,137
Why Are All the Conservative Loudmouths Irish-American?

This article is in the latest edition of Newsweek

I found it excellent.

I was struck by this in particular

My connection to Irishness is thus self-generated, but it is real. I’ve lived there, and I care about the place, enough to notice that Irish-Americans are very different from the Irish-in-Ireland, and often have no sense of themselves as connected to the island and its history.

What happened to Irish America, that closed, intense world I know mainly from movies and books? How could I make sense of its drying up and blowing away, unmourned?

Although the author is too kind to explicitly say it, the central tenet is very simplistic
Having spent 150 years striving to be fully accepted at the very top stratas, the generation (1930s to 1950ws) who finally got them there raised a generation of unappealing loudmouth conservatives who essentially have no Irishness, save for the occasional glib remark when suits "oh I have plenty of Irish fighting qualities in me..etc"

Overall I found the article depressingly and brutally honest.
So many Irish Americans have become arseholes!
He's completely wrong. The Irish still on the island have simply learnt to hide the fact behind, an Alcohol, cocaine induced slur, that we are almost all the Conservative Loudmouth Irish
 

RasherHash

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Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
25,614
There was certainly this then and now:
[video=youtube;lYlqY-MDq18]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYlqY-MDq18[/video]
Others are simply Irish only by distant ancestry and/or via intermarriage and have no meaningful connection to it.

But there's other reasons.

Whilst some things are dynamic about the States, other aspects remain archaic. A basic is passage of generations. Irish American right wingers that retain some or many 'Irish' aspects are archaic, retaining religious and socially authoritarian old stuff whereas Ireland is modernising on that. Many old stock ethnic Germans are like that too like the 'Pennsylvania Dutch' and in the Midwest.

There's also how America has created 'winners' and 'losers' in its own right. Past generations and the sheer size and resources of the nation--along with being spared invasion and incineration by strong powers given its geography. From that, two types of Irish right wingers have come to the fore.

Some Irish American right wingers are 'lace curtain' Irish. They're essentially trust fund brats and otherwise beneficiaries of the hard work done by their predecessors. Those right wingers fall into the Social Darwinist/Robber Baron mindsets, acting like they hit a home run when they were pampered into their lifestyle with all the pretentiousness, sense of entitlement, exploitation and gombeenism that comes with it.

Other Irish American right wingers are 'shanty Irish'. They're begrudgers and bitter because they've p!ssed away the massive head starts being born in the States gives them. Whereas their Irish ancestors crossed the ocean penniless seeking opportunity, these wasters won't migrate their arses across their own states or to other regions where opportunities exist or basically take advantage of their born situations in the US. Yet, they'll begrudge the Hispanic and other immigrants who like their ancestors take risks and relocate into the US to work jobs they won't do in places where they jobs are and otherwise look to blame anything and take their angers out on anything for their own failures. It's a pathetic case of lazy scapegoating and having gone soft and looking for excuses.

Conservative author Kevin Williamson nailed the 'shanty' types well with the rise of Trump and GOP white grievance mongering about the economic 'has been/never were' areas of the US:


Donald Trump & White Working Class Dysfunction: Real Opportunity Needed, Not Trump | National Review


There's a caution lesson here to the Irish at home though. We've all been witness to some changes in attitudes with Ireland's rise to the First World. Some have gone 'shanty' and like to blame the Poles and other immigrants when they won't do the kinds of work people from the 1980s and before once travelled to do, never mind would have done at home, etc. Some have gotten 'lace curtain' about working class people, etc.
It's all very negative, they're 'lace curtain' Irish or trust fund brats or 'shanty' types "and take their angers out on anything for their own failures".

Why the vitriolic hatred of Irish Americans, or is it the Irish as a whole?
 

Wascurito

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Apr 18, 2017
Messages
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He would be in trouble if he wrote a similar article about Jewish men
Possibly....because he's not Jewish-American. He's an Irish-American writing about some people from his own community. If you criticize across ethnic boundaries, then the row starts. It's not rocket science. It's not even a science.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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Nov 14, 2005
Messages
15,365
It's all very negative, they're 'lace curtain' Irish or trust fund brats or 'shanty' types "and take their angers out on anything for their own failures".

Why the vitriolic hatred of Irish Americans, or is it the Irish as a whole?
Nope. I'm Irish and proud of it, but that's how and why the right wing Irish American crowd act the way they do.

It's negative because they are negative and vocally and proudly so, and Trump and what's going on with the American right wing including the Irish 'lace curtain' and 'shanty' elements of them are just the natural arse end product of what I said. In fact, their Irish ancestors used to refer to both types of right wingers like that as 'narrowbacks' because they're either pretentious pampered Social Darwinist/Robber Baron brats and/or lazy whinging wasters of the opportunities their emigrant forebears wanted to provide their progeny in the States.

 
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dizillusioned

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Jan 19, 2011
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Replace the Irish-American with Black and see what reaction he gets. Interestingly nothing about the heritage of Van Gosse online....;)
 

Notachipanoaktree

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I'm still reading the article but not all "Conservative loudmouths" are Irish-Americans. The loudest one of them all** has no connections to Ireland.

**No-one's louder than him, believe me. Everyone says it, bigly.
Look to yourself before naming others, boy.
 

Hewson

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Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Messages
8,272
Why Are All the Conservative Loudmouths Irish-American?

This article is in the latest edition of Newsweek

I found it excellent.

I was struck by this in particular

My connection to Irishness is thus self-generated, but it is real. I’ve lived there, and I care about the place, enough to notice that Irish-Americans are very different from the Irish-in-Ireland, and often have no sense of themselves as connected to the island and its history.

What happened to Irish America, that closed, intense world I know mainly from movies and books? How could I make sense of its drying up and blowing away, unmourned?

Although the author is too kind to explicitly say it, the central tenet is very simplistic
Having spent 150 years striving to be fully accepted at the very top stratas, the generation (1930s to 1950ws) who finally got them there raised a generation of unappealing loudmouth conservatives who essentially have no Irishness, save for the occasional glib remark when suits "oh I have plenty of Irish fighting qualities in me..etc"

Overall I found the article depressingly and brutally honest.
So many Irish Americans have become arseholes!
This is a point I made (apologetically) on an American forum a few months back - and then wondered why,nexactly, I was feeling apologetic. It's not like I, or probably the overwhelming majority of people in Ireland, felt any affinity with the likes of Bannon, Conway, Ryan, McConnell or the rest of the rabble who support or enable the biggest threat to American democracy in generations.

There's no need to feel embarrassed or apologetic because none of the trash with which the infant president has surrounded himself has anything to do with Ireland 2017. They're of another age and more typical of a country traumatised by centuries of oppression that exported its victims to repeat the cycle all over again against another minority in a new world.

Outside of Trump's and the GOP's circle Fox's Bill O'Reilly has probably shown that Irish America is as capable of being as bad as any absentee British landlord was in the 19th century.
 

Erudite Caveman

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Jul 27, 2016
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Exactly. Such as why are all American journalists and film producers Jewish? A far more relevant one they will never answer.
All of them? That's a pretty stupidly easily disproved assertion isn't it?

I'm more interested in why racist loons think the rest of us are as thick as they are.
 


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