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Irish Aristocracy

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Apr 21, 2004
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Just wondering in light of former Senator Edward Haughey being elevated to the House of Lords, what is the general perception of Irish citizens who accept a British peerage?
I know in some cases (Dr. Sir AJF O'Reilly KBE Esq.) there is a whole lot of personal vanity tied up in the acceptance of a title by an Irish citizen.
But also what is the view of those Anglo Irish who have continued to use their ancient titles, Lord MountCharles, The Knight of Glin, Lord Altemount...etc.
Are these a relic of British imperialism we could do well without?
 


Conor

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Is there any harm in it?
 

mcguirkj

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Aug 2, 2003
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Where's the harm? Would we object if an Irish citizen was honoured with the Congressional Medal of Honor, or some Frenchy medal?

I suspect that the Shinners amongst us (and that includes you, Shane Holden), will be on here soon though to conceal their anti-british bigotry in false arguments about Irish Patriotism and what the men of 1916 fought for and what not.
 

Barbarian

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Jan 13, 2004
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By what authority in Ireland do these 'aristocrats' hold titles of ‘nobility’? By my understanding, we live in a republic of equals; we are citizens - not subjects. I’m sure there is no harm in prancing about with a foreign title, however these people must understand this title offers no exalted position in our society and has no legality in this republic.
 

Marx

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Mar 5, 2004
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Unfortunately The Knight of Glins title will disappear when the present one dies as he has left only female issue.

I don't see anything wrong with using titles etc. once everyone is treated the same and not discriminated against.
 

Barbarian

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Actually the former leader of the SDLP, Gerry Fitt, John Hume’s immediate predecessor, accepted a peerage and was heavily rebuked for it at the time in the nationalist community. His argument was that his would be a voice in the British upper house for the mainly disenfranchised nationalist community.
If it has an altruistic motive then it has merit - if simply for self-engrossment and pomposity (Sir Anthony) it should be scorned


[Edited on 10/5/2004 by Barbarian]
 

setanta

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Beggars on horseback - isn't that what we're looking at when we see Irish people who reside in or come from a Republic accepting titles from Queen Liz. There is nothing benign about these awards - let's take a look at a few of them:

OBE - Order of the British EMPIRE
MBE - Member of the British EMPIRE

It makes me sick when I see Irish people - who should know better - accepting a title that glorifies that organisation of criminals that was the British Empire.

Bunreacht is quite clear on this one - 'this State shall confer no honours' (quoted from memory so excuse the inexactitude!). That's part of the measure of this Republic.

Irish citizens who are offered foreign honours may only accept them at the discreation of the Department of Foreign Affairs (the Irish one, that is). I wonder how many of these shoneens have gone to the bother of following the law when offered their baubles.
 

geraghd

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Dec 22, 2003
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474
Id love to be honoured with a title.. but id only when it constitutes a prefix to my name!
Wasnt there talk of Ireland giving out honours like the British system of those that contributed in various areas abroad or something?? It may be a fg proposal but I am very sketchy as to the details..
 

Conor

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Bunreacht is quite clear on this one - 'this State shall confer no honours' (quoted from memory so excuse the inexactitude!). That's part of the measure of this Republic.
It's article 40, Section 2:
1° Titles of nobility shall not be conferred by the State.

2° No title of nobility or of honour may be accepted by any citizen except with the prior approval of the Government.


Still and all... where's the harm?
 

geraghd

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What implications exactly does subsection 2 have if say I accepted a title without the approval of the govt?
Is there legislation to this effect does anyone know?
And no im not planning on being offered any sort of title..
 

Conor

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I reckon an Irish Legion of Honour, or something along them lines, would be pretty cool.
 

geraghd

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Dec 22, 2003
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Or instead of the knighhood we could honour people with the title Druid! or something to that effect...
 

Maximilian

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Feb 11, 2004
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2° No title of nobility or of honour may be accepted by any citizen except with the prior approval of the Government.
Bob Geldof asked the government for and recieved permission to have his Knighthood. I'm not sure about Tony O'Reilly (he may be a British citizen).
 

revereie

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Jan 7, 2004
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not quite an honours system here but we have the Aosdana who have the appendage 'An Tsaoi', although while awarded by the Council of State or present members of the Aosdana it hasn't been without controversy ...

and while we all have a fondness for old irish chieftains etc etc we must remember we are in a republic and we're all citizens, also look at how degraded the New Year list has become in the UK with all those famous people turning down honours - mor power to them!

[Edited on 10/5/2004 by revereie]
 

NJP

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Mar 12, 2004
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By what authority in Ireland do these 'aristocrats' hold titles of ‘nobility’? By my understanding, we live in a republic of equals; we are citizens - not subjects. I’m sure there is no harm in prancing about with a foreign title, however these people must understand this title offers no exalted position in our society and has no legality in this republic.
Beggars on horseback - isn't that what we're looking at when we see Irish people who reside in or come from a Republic accepting titles from Queen Liz. There is nothing benign about these awards - let's take a look at a few of them:

OBE - Order of the British EMPIRE
MBE - Member of the British EMPIRE

It makes me sick when I see Irish people - who should know better - accepting a title that glorifies that organisation of criminals that was the British Empire.
Barbarian and Setanta - my sentiments exactly.
I would also like to see Irish citizens who accept honours from the British monarch stripped of their Irish citizenship. :cool:
 

geraghd

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Dec 22, 2003
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I would also like to see Irish citizens who accept honours from the British monarch stripped of their Irish citizenship
Oh right so someone gets honoured from another state and they should be denied citizenship of the state they belong to?
 

SPN

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It makes me sick when I see Irish people - who should know better - accepting a title that glorifies that organisation of criminals that was the British Empire.
Oh how quickly they forget ....

Dublin was the second city of the Empire. The British Empire was OUR Empire too.

Irish soldiers and sailors fought to gain the Empire.

Irish Civil Servants administered the Empire.

Irish traders and businessmen profited from the Empire.

Irish Missionaries enlightened the Empire.

Most of the towns we live in were built using money made from the Empire.

While we are all proud of our Republic, what went before, for all its faults, was a reality.

Deal with it.
 


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