Irish Army: Sexual Assault Victim Fined €950!

Andrew49

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DaBrow Wrote:
4 England players were involved in NZ last year
Background:
Solicitors acting for the 18-year-old woman released to the media a two-page letter containing her side of the story. The contents put a more serious complexion on Blackett’s deliberations. In the letter addressed to the judge, the woman said that she was not going to make a formal complaint to police only because to do so would “generate extensive and invasive news media, threaten her privacy and personal life, and compound the impact on her of the June 15 sexual violations”. Chapman Tripp, her solicitors in Auckland, said that no one in England had attempted to contact them or the police for their input into the inquiry. She wanted to correct misinformation that may be “recycled” in the course of Blackett’s investigation.

In the letter, the woman moved to clarify details of the alleged assault at the England team hotel on Auckland’s waterfront. Jack Hodder, a partner with Chapman Tripp, said that she had been the victim of “sexual violation” by four squad members after she had been invited back to the Hilton Hotel by one player initially. She went to hospital for treatment, Hodder claimed. He added: “The violations caused injuries such that the medical professionals treating her referred her to the police.

The woman had not had, nor wished to have, any communication with the news media and wanted to protect her privacy, Hodder said. In the circumstances and for the reasons outlined, she did wish to deal directly with Blackett’s inquiry, but Hodder said that should the RFU require clarification on specific points, he would “seek instructions”. To avoid misunderstanding, Hodder said that the letter was “the first and final statement” of the victim’s position and designed to counter the misinformation.

Glenda Hughes, a communications executive acting for the woman, told TV3, a New Zealand television channel, that she did not want to put herself in the media spotlight by going through a trial. “Her sense is that she’s had a pretty awful experience and the quickest way to move on is not to extend that experience,” Hughes said.

Hughes added that, according to the information she had, the injuries the woman suffered were consistent with a sexual attack. “They were definitely indicative of non-consensual sex,” she said. “She went back with one member of the rugby team and then I think it got out of control.”

At the time the allegations came to light, the England management said that the four players denied allegations of rape and sexual assault and had the support of the rest of the team. British media reports, quoting an England rugby source, claimed that the woman had consensual sex with one player in his room before being joined by another squad member, with whom she also had consensual sex. The reports said that some of the sex was witnessed by two other players.

The RFU confirmed receipt of the letter and said that Blackett would consider its contents as part of his investigation.

Alleged sexual assault victim writes to RFU
 


X-ray

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She is a disgrace to the army and its an insult that she is comminsioned. The sexual assault thing is a seperate issue and it does not justice to the victims of sexuals abuses to link the two.
 

Factorem

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She is a disgrace to the army and its an insult that she is comminsioned. The sexual assault thing is a seperate issue and it does not justice to the victims of sexuals abuses to link the two.
To attempt to draw a line between the sex abuse issue and the fine is simplistic in the extreme. Sure they're separate, but they're not unrelated.

Of course in your black and white world of yes sir, no sir, what you're fed by those in command office is gospel.
 

X-ray

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To attempt to draw a line between the sex abuse issue and the fine is simplistic in the extreme. Sure they're separate, but they're not unrelated.

Of course in your black and white world of yes sir, no sir, what you're fed by those in command office is gospel.
Shes the officer...the one giving the orders
 

candi

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It's not necessarily a false accusation. Sexual assault is obviously a pretty hard thing to prove, usually it comes down to her word against his and as this thread shows there are still a lot of knuckle-draggers around who think that sensible, reasonable women have some interest in lying about being sexually assaulted and trying to ruin innocent men's lives. While these people exist, a lot of perfectly valid claims of sexual abuse are going to fail for lack of evidence. Look at the low conviction rate for rape as another example.

Not saying that the man in question actually committed the alleged assault in this case just making a more general point.
On the contrary alleged sexual assaults are very often settled without any court appearance as the often innocent, but not always innocent respondent does not want his good name dragged through the mud.

Many alleged sexual assault cases do fail for lack of evidence. If the evidence is not there there was not an assault.

I would say that it is the ever increasing incidence of malicious accusations that is not helping the honest complainants.
 

Andrew49

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candi wrote:
If the evidence is not there there was not an assault.
Yet an ex-Christian Brother [Maurice Tobin] was jailed for 12 years, with the final four suspended in 2003 for the sexual abuse of children between the years 1959 and 1974 in Letterfrack. The only evidence against him were the allegations made by over 100 people who were children in Letterfrack in those years. More than 100 allegations of sexual abuse were made to gardaí against Tobin. During the hearing in Galway, at which he was sentenced, the court was told how he systematically molested, abused and buggered boys aged 11-14.

Were these allegations malicious? There was no evidence except the allegations!

I should point out that despite the absence of evidence Tobin admitted his guilt.

Background
 

Odyessus

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candi wrote:

Yet an ex-Christian Brother [Maurice Tobin] was jailed for 12 years, with the final four suspended in 2003 for the sexual abuse of children between the years 1959 and 1974 in Letterfrack. The only evidence against him were the allegations made by over 100 people who were children in Letterfrack in those years. More than 100 allegations of sexual abuse were made to gardaí against Tobin. During the hearing in Galway, at which he was sentenced, the court was told how he systematically molested, abused and buggered boys aged 11-14.

Were these allegations malicious? There was no evidence except the allegations!

I should point out that despite the absence of evidence Tobin admitted his guilt.

Background

100 people giving sworn testimony is evidence.
 

trophy

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believe the issue here was that the officer in question was on duty and therefore armed.
She was responsible for safety of barracks and persons and equipment therein. To leave your post without handing in your weapon is I believe a sackable offence and I am sure if she was male then thats what would have happened. Believe in many countries would be considered desertion and would be punishable by jail or in more hardline military countries by a bullet.
 

pete2

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believe the issue here was that the officer in question was on duty and therefore armed.
She was responsible for safety of barracks and persons and equipment therein. To leave your post without handing in your weapon is I believe a sackable offence and I am sure if she was male then thats what would have happened. Believe in many countries would be considered desertion and would be punishable by jail or in more hardline military countries by a bullet.
Lt McBarron felt under severe pressure to deal with the outstanding debt and left the base, after first locking up her official firearm and 20 rounds of ammunition.
Reprimand for wannabe Miss Ireland who lied to army bosses - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie

Not sure why everyone is so upset about this. Is it because shes a woman? She works in the inventory. She probably commands secretaries, not troops on a battlefield.

The army is no doubt full of fallible people, its just this one has a vagina and by virtue of her talents and athletic career has a particularly high public profile. Her athletic career shows she is exceptionally gifted and the army should find her a post to harness that. Drumming her out based on some nonsense honor code is only going to leave a sour taste in everyone mouth.
 

Clanrickard

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Her athletic career shows she is exceptionally gifted and the army should find her a post to harness that. Drumming her out based on some nonsense honor code is only going to leave a sour taste in everyone mouth.
Her athletic prowess shows she could be a good athlete but that is not what she is paid for. Her job is as an officer and that demands certain standards of behaviour. She behaved in a manner well below these standards and in my opinion should be demoted at the very least. Whatever she is gifted at giving leadership sure isn't one of her gifts.
 

evercloserunion

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believe the issue here was that the officer in question was on duty and therefore armed.
She was responsible for safety of barracks and persons and equipment therein. To leave your post without handing in your weapon is I believe a sackable offence and I am sure if she was male then thats what would have happened. Believe in many countries would be considered desertion and would be punishable by jail or in more hardline military countries by a bullet.
Unless our military higher-ups are severely mentally retarded I doubt they would consider it desertion.
 

Bobert

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Unless our military higher-ups are severely mentally retarded I doubt they would consider it desertion.
Under no circumstances are you to leave your post without the permission of a senior officer lest it be classed as desertion.
 

PaulMeyer

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Under no circumstances are you to leave your post without the permission of a senior officer lest it be classed as desertion.
Absolutely correct. I'm guessing from the information already posted that she was Orderly Officer? I would assume then that there are clear and unambiguous Standing Orders for that duty and I very much doubt if it leaves any room for leaving your place of duty without permission and a very good reason? To put it in perspective, what would be the punishment for a private soldier on duty as barrack guard, who decided that he/she had a pressing engagement which simply could not wait and decided therefore to abandon his/her post and P*ss off down town? On active service that would be sufficient to result in a Court-Martial and the punishment likely to be severe. Within living memory it merited the death penalty!

The more I read about this girl the more I think she is in the wrong job, is out of her depth and quite frankly is unsuited to be an army officer.
 

florin

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Reprimand for wannabe Miss Ireland who lied to army bosses - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie

Not sure why everyone is so upset about this. Is it because shes a woman? She works in the inventory. She probably commands secretaries, not troops on a battlefield.

The army is no doubt full of fallible people, its just this one has a vagina and by virtue of her talents and athletic career has a particularly high public profile. Her athletic career shows she is exceptionally gifted and the army should find her a post to harness that. Drumming her out based on some nonsense honor code is only going to leave a sour taste in everyone mouth.
The same nonsense honour code whose purpose is to hold a unit together in battle?
 

pete2

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The same nonsense honour code whose purpose is to hold a unit together in battle?
The honor code i'm talking about is where everyone walks around with a stiff upper lip and isn't human. Its a job. She works in the inventory. Her employer has taken the view that she slipped up and shes not been dismissed but disciplined. Her contract of employment stands.

She will not be going into battle. Do the IrishDF even go into battle? Was the Congo the last actual full scale battle they were in? I'm sure in battle she would do fine but its just a fantastical notion.
 

PaulMeyer

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pete2 wrote:

Not sure why everyone is so upset about this. Is it because shes a woman? She works in the inventory. She probably commands secretaries, not troops on a battlefield.
Er no, it's because she is an officer and is clearly unaware of what that entails as far as I can see. Incidentally, there is no such department in any army I know of, as the "inventory", you're clearly making the same mistake as the dim-witted reporter who penned one of the reports on this matter. She is in the INFANTRY, and could very well command troops on active service. At any rate, an officer is an officer and the standards of conduct and behaviour do not vary according to Arm of Service.

The army is no doubt full of fallible people, its just this one has a vagina and by virtue of her talents and athletic career has a particularly high public profile. Her athletic career shows she is exceptionally gifted and the army should find her a post to harness that. Drumming her out based on some nonsense honor code is only going to leave a sour taste in everyone mouth
All people are fallible but when a cadet is commisioned as an officer the expectation is that he or she is considerably less fallible than the norm and much higher standards of ability, behaviour, conscientiousness and professionalism are required. She may be a gifted athlete but that of itself is no guarantee of being officer material, neither does high intelligence for that matter, an educated ,intelligent, mature self-confident individual, with sound leadership ability and deep integrity is what is sought.
Her obvious failings are not offences against some "honour code", which is an American invention and I doubt very much if such a thing exists in the Irish Army. They are offences against the miitary law and the rules and regulations of the Irish Army as laid down by your parliament and they apply to all ranks, not just officers. If an officer can't abide by the rules and military law then how can that officer :

(a) Expect their subordinates to abide by them.

(b) Command the respect and loyalty of those subordinates.

(c) If neccessary, award disciplinary sanctions to those subordinates for breaching those rules and regulations.

Personally, the more I learn about this stupid girl the more I think it would be to the benefit of the Irish Army if she were required to resign, it might remind people of the realities and demands of military service for a start.
 

Factorem

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pete2 wrote:



Er no, it's because she is an officer and is clearly unaware of what that entails as far as I can see. Incidentally, there is no such department in any army I know of, as the "inventory", you're clearly making the same mistake as the dim-witted reporter who penned one of the reports on this matter. She is in the INFANTRY, and could very well command troops on active service. At any rate, an officer is an officer and the standards of conduct and behaviour do not vary according to Arm of Service.



All people are fallible but when a cadet is commisioned as an officer the expectation is that he or she is considerably less fallible than the norm and much higher standards of ability, behaviour, conscientiousness and professionalism are required. She may be a gifted athlete but that of itself is no guarantee of being officer material, neither does high intelligence for that matter, an educated ,intelligent, mature self-confident individual, with sound leadership ability and deep integrity is what is sought.
Her obvious failings are not offences against some "honour code", which is an American invention and I doubt very much if such a thing exists in the Irish Army. They are offences against the miitary law and the rules and regulations of the Irish Army as laid down by your parliament and they apply to all ranks, not just officers. If an officer can't abide by the rules and military law then how can that officer :

(a) Expect their subordinates to abide by them.

(b) Command the respect and loyalty of those subordinates.

(c) If neccessary, award disciplinary sanctions to those subordinates for breaching those rules and regulations.

Personally, the more I learn about this stupid girl the more I think it would be to the benefit of the Irish Army if she were required to resign, it might remind people of the realities and demands of military service for a start.
Yeah right.

These guys are a joke.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI5YQ5lc6o8"]YouTube - Irish Army in Chad; Do They Know Its Christmas[/ame]

Nothing more than a boy scout jambouree for 30 year-olds.

And I didn't find the naked priest one bit funny. To think I'm paying for these gobshi.tes. Incidentally, do I own a piece of that drum kit that was sent overseas?

It's not really surprising that sexual assault cases rear their ugly heads in these kinds of environments.

And they're not even drunk by the looks of things.
 
Last edited:

PaulMeyer

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Yeah right.

These guys are a joke.

YouTube - Irish Army in Chad; Do They Know Its Christmas

Nothing more than a boy scout jambouree for 30 year-olds.

And I didn't find the naked priest one bit funny. To think I'm paying for these gobshi.tes. Incidentally, do I own a piece of that drum kit that was sent overseas?

It's not really surprising that sexual assault cases rear their ugly heads in these kinds of environments.
It's obvious that you have no interest in this particular issue at all, other than as an excuse to exercise your obvious dislike of the Irish Army. I have no idea why you feel like that but for the record, and speaking as a "foreigner", I see nothing wrong with a morale-boosting video being made by a unit on active service a long way from home. Perhaps you need to chill out and develop a sense of perspective about the whole thing? Anyway, I have no doubt that the video was made for the lad's families and comrades back in Ireland, and not for some sour-faced, ungracious, uninformed begrudging whinger like yourself.

Lighten up for F*ck's sake!
 

Bobert

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It's obvious that you have no interest in this particular issue at all, other than as an excuse to exercise your obvious dislike of the Irish Army. I have no idea why you feel like that but for the record, and speaking as a "foreigner", I see nothing wrong with a morale-boosting video being made by a unit on active service a long way from home. Perhaps you need to chill out and develop a sense of perspective about the whole thing? Anyway, I have no doubt that the video was made for the lad's families and comrades back in Ireland, and not for some sour-faced, ungracious, uninformed begrudging whinger like yourself.

Lighten up for F*ck's sake!
I like you. You're fun.
 

pete2

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Er no, it's because she is an officer and is clearly unaware of what that entails as far as I can see. Incidentally, there is no such department in any army I know of, as the "inventory", you're clearly making the same mistake as the dim-witted reporter who penned one of the reports on this matter. She is in the INFANTRY, and could very well command troops on active service.
In other words you've no clue what shes doing? Thats why I deferred to the article although I perhaps should have looked further and found you another article to rubbish.

All people are fallible but when a cadet is commisioned as an officer the expectation is that he or she is considerably less fallible than the norm and much higher standards of ability, behaviour, conscientiousness and professionalism are required. She may be a gifted athlete but that of itself is no guarantee of being officer material, neither does high intelligence for that matter, an educated ,intelligent, mature self-confident individual, with sound leadership ability and deep integrity is what is sought.
I do believe representing your country in national and international competitions signifies a character & determination not found in most. It probably also signifies a patriotism not found in most. Only the latter can be discounted when it comes to service in a modern military since its a job, and no longer a vocational calling.

Her obvious failings are not offences against some "honour code", which is an American invention and I doubt very much if such a thing exists in the Irish Army.
Since the British code of military honor informed the American version its likely to have informed the Irish military also. Can't say nor am I really interested. When people hear honor code they don't need an etchasketch to work out whats meant.

They are offences against the miitary law and the rules and regulations of the Irish Army as laid down by your parliament and they apply to all ranks, not just officers. If an officer can't abide by the rules and military law then how can that officer :

(a) Expect their subordinates to abide by them.
(b) Command the respect and loyalty of those subordinates.
(c) If neccessary, award disciplinary sanctions to those subordinates for breaching those rules and regulations.
The woman was court martialed and disciplined. Is it safe to say she is now aware of the full terms of her contract with the military and that the IDF are happy she can discharge her duties as outlined in that contract? If they weren't she would be fired.

Personally, the more I learn about this stupid girl the more I think it would be to the benefit of the Irish Army if she were required to resign, it might remind people of the realities and demands of military service for a start.
Between her and her employer.
 


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