Irish Banks are Aggressively Anti-Business

Mad as Fish

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
24,185
Why don't people just make money for themselves and use that as investment in their business rather than rely on banks? Many more people are aware now of the true nature of this state, its origin and aims and the class running it than did before - knowing that, how can people be surprised that we've ended up with this banking and business environment.

Withdraw. Withdraw from them and their sh1tty rigged game, make your own money, defer expansion if necessary, there are always opportunities.
Are you suggesting they print their own or have you some secret recipe for the stuff?
 


SideysGhost

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
17,360
And yet the wingnuts will tell you to p1ss off and start your own business if you are unemployed, just how that is to happen they are too busy hurrumphing to explain, possibly because they have this belief that you don't need capital to get going or that the banks are there ready to throw money at you, backing brave and all that crap.
Well that's the thing about WingNuts, especially the online variety. It became painfully obvious from 2006 onwards for all their blustering and spoofing none of them actually had the faintest fecking clue about the real world, none of them had the foggiest notion of actually running a business, none of them had the faintest clue about basic finance, economics or management, in fact all of them seemed to have very little clue about actual real life in any way whatsoever. I strongly suspected then, and am thoroughly convinced now, that almost all of the right-wing ranters online (not just here) are actually profoundly socially dysfunctional loners and weirdos, acting out the fantasy in their heads of them being successful rich and popular. And the small number who actually did seem to have some sort of a vague grip on reality were all, for all their bluster about free markets, entrepreneurship etc, sucking off the taxpayers teat while railing against "socialism" and "big government"

Bunch of loons.
 

Civic_critic2

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
4,883
Are you suggesting they print their own or have you some secret recipe for the stuff?
I suggest people stop over-extending themselves and build up their business as if banks were not an option. What is a loan but future profit anyway? Defer it until they've actually made it. Then use different methods to raise capital or the equipment that capital was going to be used to buy. I'm not advancing this for every business, no doubt there are some which prefer to use banks because it makes business sense to do so at a certain point. But many if not most businesses don't need this undignified slobbering before banks, fk them, use your head.
 

twokidsmanybruises

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
6,594
I suggest people stop over-extending themselves and build up their business as if banks were not an option. What is a loan but future profit anyway? Defer it until they've actually made it. Then use different methods to raise capital or the equipment that capital was going to be used to buy. I'm not advancing this for every business, no doubt there are some which prefer to use banks because it makes business sense to do so at a certain point. But many if not most businesses don't need this undignified slobbering before banks, fk them, use your head.
This isn't practical unless your business is some type of consultancy ( where someone becomes a freelance brain-for-hire ). If you intend to produce something and bring it to market, it really won't be possible to raise the capital needed to start up and pay for a premise, equipment, staff and materials from personal savings alone. Without wealthy private backers, you'd be dead in water. Sad but true.
 

Jack O Neill

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 8, 2015
Messages
6,816
Why don't people just make money for themselves and use that as investment in their business rather than rely on banks? Many more people are aware now of the true nature of this state, its origin and aims and the class running it than did before - knowing that, how can people be surprised that we've ended up with this banking and business environment.

Withdraw. Withdraw from them and their sh1tty rigged game, make your own money, defer expansion if necessary, there are always opportunities.
Hows the start up coming along ? , though so
 

Civic_critic2

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
4,883
This isn't practical unless your business is some type of consultancy ( where someone becomes a freelance brain-for-hire ). If you intend to produce something and bring it to market, it really won't be possible to raise the capital needed to start up and pay for a premise, equipment, staff and materials from personal savings alone. Without wealthy private backers, you'd be dead in water. Sad but true.
Well that's both true and false. For one thing, most businesses aren't bringing a new product to market, so you've immediately put front and centre a capital intensive edge case. In this case a bank may make sense but alternatively you can choose venture capital instead or peer-to-peer community loan or kickstarter. Or cost the MVP - Minimal Viable Product much lower, present it to market and get backers at that point. Or sell it online or some subset of its advantages online - the software for the system for example instead of the full system and use that as a plugin for similar systems. Or reduce running costs such as rent by doing some deal or other using LETS or some other means outside of the control of the financial entities.

People want bank loans to be there in case of emergency, especially for paying staff. Use an insurance bond of some sort instead with better terms.

Basically the banks in Ireland are of marginal utility and it would be a useful political exercise as well as good for your mental health to kick them to touch and say fk them. People look at a bank manager in a suit driving a mercedes and think these people are businessmen, they're not. They are financial bureaucrats, part of what might be called an increasingly globalised financial bureaucracy, a kind of local secretariat with considerable delusions of grandeur.
 

twokidsmanybruises

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
6,594
Well that's both true and false. For one thing, most businesses aren't bringing a new product to market, so you've immediately put front and centre a capital intensive edge case. In this case a bank may make sense but alternatively you can choose venture capital instead or peer-to-peer community loan or kickstarter. Or cost the MVP - Minimal Viable Product much lower, present it to market and get backers at that point. Or sell it online or some subset of its advantages online - the software for the system for example instead of the full system and use that as a plugin for similar systems. Or reduce running costs such as rent by doing some deal or other using LETS or some other means outside of the control of the financial entities.

People want bank loans to be there in case of emergency, especially for paying staff. Use an insurance bond of some sort instead with better terms.

Basically the banks in Ireland are of marginal utility and it would be a useful political exercise as well as good for your mental health to kick them to touch and say fk them. People look at a bank manager in a suit driving a mercedes and think these people are businessmen, they're not. They are financial bureaucrats, part of what might be called an increasingly globalised financial bureaucracy, a kind of local secretariat with considerable delusions of grandeur.
Just try getting Venture Capital if you've been turned down for a bank loan...
 

Sister Mercedes

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
20,461
When I read the 'business section' of Irish news papers, 80%+ of it is about commercial property deals.
 

Civic_critic2

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
4,883
Just try getting Venture Capital if you've been turned down for a bank loan...
One of the most important things someone can learn, in business especially but also in life in general, is something very simple - if you get up and go out things happen. That's all. Go out and make money. Go out and meet people and make money.
 

twokidsmanybruises

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
6,594
One of the most important things someone can learn, in business especially but also in life in general, is something very simple - if you get up and go out things happen. That's all. Go out and make money. Go out and meet people and make money.
That is absolute rubbish. To make money you must have a product or service that someone else is willing to pay money for. saying "go out and make money" is about as realistic as saying "go out and be a celebrity".. Unless, of course, you are advocating theft, scams and/or committing fraud.

If you actually want to establish a solid business that will be sustainable and will offer reliability, a "can do" attitude cannot replace a solid business plan and financing.
 

Civic_critic2

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
4,883
That is absolute rubbish. To make money you must have a product or service that someone else is willing to pay money for. saying "go out and make money" is about as realistic as saying "go out and be a celebrity".. Unless, of course, you are advocating theft, scams and/or committing fraud.

If you actually want to establish a solid business that will be sustainable and will offer reliability, a "can do" attitude cannot replace a solid business plan and financing.
I don't know why you set your point up in opposition to mine, they can co-exist. But on a point of order what I've said is not rubbish, not at all. I've found myself sitting in boardrooms talking with CEOs and management and in the back of my mind I've been saying to myself that the reason I was there was entirely because I got up and went out and one thing led to another. I didn't reinvent the wheel to do this, I observed some product being sold, worked out its economics and decided I'll sell it too and, solely on that basis, went out and got business. Always. I've done this several times with different products.

You just need to have one insight, which I got when I was young - get up and go out and things happen. It's far from rubbish as an insight, it can be life-changing.
 

Mad as Fish

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
24,185
I suggest people stop over-extending themselves and build up their business as if banks were not an option. What is a loan but future profit anyway? Defer it until they've actually made it. Then use different methods to raise capital or the equipment that capital was going to be used to buy. I'm not advancing this for every business, no doubt there are some which prefer to use banks because it makes business sense to do so at a certain point. But many if not most businesses don't need this undignified slobbering before banks, fk them, use your head.
I do hope the real world doesn't catch up with you any time soon, you are totally unprepared for it.
 

Sister Mercedes

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
20,461
One of the most important things someone can learn, in business especially but also in life in general, is something very simple - if you get up and go out things happen. That's all. Go out and make money. Go out and meet people and make money.
No that's politics.
 

Jack O Neill

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 8, 2015
Messages
6,816
I don't know why you set your point up in opposition to mine, they can co-exist. But on a point of order what I've said is not rubbish, not at all. I've found myself sitting in boardrooms talking with CEOs and management and in the back of my mind I've been saying to myself that the reason I was there was entirely because I got up and went out and one thing led to another. I didn't reinvent the wheel to do this, I observed some product being sold, worked out its economics and decided I'll sell it too and, solely on that basis, went out and got business. Always. I've done this several times with different products.

You just need to have one insight, which I got when I was young - get up and go out and things happen. It's far from rubbish as an insight, it can be life-changing.
Of course you did :roll:
 

twokidsmanybruises

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
6,594
I don't know why you set your point up in opposition to mine, they can co-exist. But on a point of order what I've said is not rubbish, not at all. I've found myself sitting in boardrooms talking with CEOs and management and in the back of my mind I've been saying to myself that the reason I was there was entirely because I got up and went out and one thing led to another. I didn't reinvent the wheel to do this, I observed some product being sold, worked out its economics and decided I'll sell it too and, solely on that basis, went out and got business. Always. I've done this several times with different products.

You just need to have one insight, which I got when I was young - get up and go out and things happen. It's far from rubbish as an insight, it can be life-changing.
The opposition comes from twenty years working, a fair bit of that time being a free-lancer or self-employed and sometimes being responsible for outsourcing work to other contract workers. The "just go out and make money" manta leads to cowboys who drag the reputation of a whole industry down. "just go out and make money" leads to shoddy workmanship, a lack of responsibility, and a tonne of customer/client - supplier disputes.

To set up a business that provides a quality service, has a solid reputation and won't vanish overnight requires actual financial planning and solid funds. Without support from an established bank, this will be next to impossible. It's easy to say "fück the banks", but this won't work in practice, and it's naive and irresponsible to claim it will.
 

Civic_critic2

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
4,883
Not sure what that means but I've said what I said mainly to encourage those who have it in them to give it a go, rather than emigrate for example.

How fresh is the 'freshly roasted' coffee advertised in some places?
 

Civic_critic2

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
4,883
The opposition comes from twenty years working, a fair bit of that time being a free-lancer or self-employed and sometimes being responsible for outsourcing work to other contract workers. The "just go out and make money" manta leads to cowboys who drag the reputation of a whole industry down. "just go out and make money" leads to shoddy workmanship, a lack of responsibility, and a tonne of customer/client - supplier disputes.

To set up a business that provides a quality service, has a solid reputation and won't vanish overnight requires actual financial planning and solid funds. Without support from an established bank, this will be next to impossible. It's easy to say "fück the banks", but this won't work in practice, and it's naive and irresponsible to claim it will.
I'm afraid you're being a bit anal about it all but that's ok because we're really talking about different approaches to the same thing. I once hired some Russian programmers to build a system that was 50% of the offering of a million pound start up. This company was incubated by one of the London accountancy firms and the system I gave them replaced what they had got from a company in Silicon Valley - it was better, more reliable and esier to use. In fact I was appalled at what the so-called 'centre of the tech industry' had supplied them, it was absolute sh1t. I was equally happy that I had walked into Palo Alto and swiped their business from them.

That business came from an email shot I did after returning to Ireland, when I decided this was what I was going to do and then went out and did it. That company is now operating on 3 continents, so I know what I'm talking about.
 

Voluntary

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 8, 2015
Messages
2,858
And yet the wingnuts will tell you to p1ss off and start your own business if you are unemployed, just how that is to happen they are too busy hurrumphing to explain, possibly because they have this belief that you don't need capital to get going or that the banks are there ready to throw money at you, backing brave and all that crap.
Person should not rely on loans while starting a new business. Loans are good for expansion when there's a proved and profitable business behind - NOT for funding initial ideas.
If you're unemployed and your new business idea rely on external funding then you're most likely going to fail.

Start small and grow organically, there's only small percentage of new businesses which aren't loosing money in the first years of running. If you rely on loans then you soon realise you go down with debt. Banks are not stupid and know that.
 

Druidess

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2011
Messages
2,553
While not in business me and the wife do have a meeting with the bank tomorrow concerning a mortgage for a house. Have deposit and everything else they need so hopefully it will go well.
Good luck with that. Seems difficult to get mortgage. The banks want you to have saved the equivalent of your annual salary 2. Anything beyond first time buyer is made beyond complicated to impossible. Friends/relations of mine have been promised funds by financial institutions and then let down at the last minute, wreaking havoc on their lives and for superfluous reasons. Basically, the banks don't want to part with their limited funds. With that in mind I would advise you to take a record, either in writing or by some other means, of everything said/promised you.

Again good luck.
 

Civic_critic2

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
4,883
No-one has any insights into how fresh 'freshly roasted' coffee generally is? Because this seems like a potential opportunity to me for someone or several people to make a living.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top