Irish Banks are Aggressively Anti-Business

Mad as Fish

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Not sure what that means but I've said what I said mainly to encourage those who have it in them to give it a go, rather than emigrate for example.

How fresh is the 'freshly roasted' coffee advertised in some places?
How much does it cost to set up a coffee shop?
 


Mad as Fish

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Person should not rely on loans while starting a new business. Loans are good for expansion when there's a proved and profitable business behind - NOT for funding initial ideas.
If you're unemployed and your new business idea rely on external funding then you're most likely going to fail.

Start small and grow organically, there's only small percentage of new businesses which aren't loosing money in the first years of running. If you rely on loans then you soon realise you go down with debt. Banks are not stupid and know that.
Start small doing what exactly?

You will find that you need capital whatever you do, show me something where there is an unsaturated market that will provide a living which requires less than 20k to get it up and running including keeping you while you are waiting for the money to come in.
 

Mad as Fish

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Insurance is a killer. I was chatting to a guy who owns a coffee van and his insurance just went up by 4k/year. He's giving up.
I can well believe it, Insurance is a total rip off in Ireland be car, commercial or whatever.
 

Franzoni

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Insurance is a killer. I was chatting to a guy who owns a coffee van and his insurance just went up by 4k/year. He's giving up.
Yep the insurance at the moment is a fúcking joke ..then you have all the other associated costs for materials and the wear and tear on equipment and the van plus any licences you need from your local quango......

Saw a coffee van for sale on Donedeal the other day might be the same guy...
 

Civic_critic2

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How much does it cost to set up a coffee shop?
Who said anything about a coffee shop? I came across a youtube video by a guy who has searched for the perfect cup of coffee. He discovered, somewhat late in his exploration, that coffee has a shelf life. In fact, according to him, coffee becomes 'dead' within 7 days of being roasted. Apparently a cup of coffee made with beans roasted within 7 days, especially if roasted within the last 24 - 48 hours, is a completely different experience than a normal cup of coffee.

If this is true then all the coffee on the shelves of the supermarkets, including the 'high class' ones, are 'dead' and inferior. This means that a market should exist for freshly roasted coffee that could knock the main players, constrained by their distribution model, into a cocked hat.
 

gleeful

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Yep the insurance at the moment is a fúcking joke ..then you have all the other associated costs for materials and the wear and tear on equipment and the van plus any licences you need from your local quango......

Saw a coffee van for sale on Donedeal the other day might be the same guy...
A lot of coffee van guys are packing it in. The whole industry will vanish.

Problem is a cup of coffee would need to be around €5 to cover the insurance costs. People aren't willing to pay that.
 

Burnout

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I have a life.
Not much help from bank or state for small (micro) businesses. There are little or no small business ministers. They have little idea what is involved as can be seen from the amount of start your own business mentors been paid by the state to shovel complete shiit at you by FAS INTREO JOB PATH etc. They get paid and you cover the cost (rural) of driving miles to a venue.

It has taken me years to build a business step by step with no help whatsoever from state or bank...meanwhile I see money been thrown at certain startups (some you can see will fail) to keep them going for a year and then bang, gone. Who did the research on these yearlong enterprises.

Mind you they are pretty damn quick to take your vat off you the second you make a tenner. I'm not saying that the state should fund every startup, but at least have people there in the Local Enterprise offices who know what they are doing.

You just get on with it because it will never change. The mindset at the top is laughable when it comes to small enterprises.
 

Franzoni

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A lot of coffee van guys are packing it in. The whole industry will vanish.

Problem is a cup of coffee would need to be around €5 to cover the insurance costs. People aren't willing to pay that.

It's not only the mobile coffee business it's across the board now with insurance...

The DOE is also becoming a scam....my yoke failed partly because the revenue have lost the details of the crew cab conversion of it on their end....

I've taxed and insured it for the last seven years even have all the paperwork to prove it.....but if it ain't on the system their end.....

Currently off the road because of it trying to get the readies together for another yoke...TBH i've been offered a job back in the PAYE sector and i might just take it and present myself at hatch 17 in a few years when the work runs out like i should of done back in 2007......
 

hammer

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Entrepreneurs find ways to do things.

Sure p.ie used to be a knocking shop against SME owners that called themselves entrepreneurs even though they may only own a Centra, Coffee Shop etc....

Have things changed I wonder :)
 

Civic_critic2

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It's not only the mobile coffee business it's across the board now with insurance...

The DOE is also becoming a scam....my yoke failed partly because the revenue have lost the details of the crew cab conversion of it on their end....

I've taxed and insured it for the last seven years even have all the paperwork to prove it.....but if it ain't on the system their end.....

Currently off the road because of it trying to get the readies together for another yoke...TBH i've been offered a job back in the PAYE sector and i might just take it and present myself at hatch 17 in a few years when the work runs out like i should of done back in 2007......
Are you in the coffee business?
 

Mad as Fish

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Who said anything about a coffee shop? I came across a youtube video by a guy who has searched for the perfect cup of coffee. He discovered, somewhat late in his exploration, that coffee has a shelf life. In fact, according to him, coffee becomes 'dead' within 7 days of being roasted. Apparently a cup of coffee made with beans roasted within 7 days, especially if roasted within the last 24 - 48 hours, is a completely different experience than a normal cup of coffee.

If this is true then all the coffee on the shelves of the supermarkets, including the 'high class' ones, are 'dead' and inferior. This means that a market should exist for freshly roasted coffee that could knock the main players, constrained by their distribution model, into a cocked hat.
Great, you've got a business idea based on something you saw on Youtube. Now how about a business plan?
 

Civic_critic2

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Entrepreneurs find ways to do things.

Sure p.ie used to be a knocking shop against SME owners that called themselves entrepreneurs even though they may only own a Centra, Coffee Shop etc....

Have things changed I wonder :)
Not sure what you mean, people who run shops are entrepreneurs. Is it Irish to think that only Elan and Ryanair have the right to be called entrepreneurs?
 

Mad as Fish

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Entrepreneurs find ways to do things.

Sure p.ie used to be a knocking shop against SME owners that called themselves entrepreneurs even though they may only own a Centra, Coffee Shop etc....

Have things changed I wonder :)
I would say that insurance going up 4k in a year is a change yes.

What's the smilie code today by the way?
 

Civic_critic2

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Great, you've got a business idea based on something you saw on Youtube.
That's all an entepreneur needs. I did some work with the owner of a national company and every time I went to meet him he was sitting there scanning through magazines. For ideas.

Now how about a business plan?
Start with the costs and the margin and make your way from there. Find a small-scale testing ground which allows you to a) see if the idea is viable and b) allows you to build up cash gradually.
 

Mad as Fish

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That's all an entepreneur needs. I did some work with the owner of a national company and every time I went to meet him he was sitting there scanning through magazines. For ideas.


Start with the costs and the margin and make your way from there. Find a small-scale testing ground which allows you to a) see if the idea is viable and b) allows you to build up cash gradually.
Go on then, you try it.

BTW, that's not a business plan by any means, just whimsy.
 

Jack O Neill

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That's all an entepreneur needs. I did some work with the owner of a national company and every time I went to meet him he was sitting there scanning through magazines. For ideas.


Start with the costs and the margin and make your way from there. Find a small-scale testing ground which allows you to a) see if the idea is viable and b) allows you to build up cash gradually.
Then sell up , retire and spend your days posting on PIE , simples :roll:
 

Franzoni

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Are you in the coffee business?


No but i've been a a a sole trader since 2007 and was self employed previous to a brief spell back in the PAYE sector before that so i understand some of issues...i was making the general point about rip off insurance and other associated costs that are becoming unsustainable...
 

Civic_critic2

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Go on then, you try it.

BTW, that's not a business plan by any means, just whimsy.
If I was going to do it I wouldn't have put it up here. I've thrown it out there so someone may look into it and maybe give it a go. Rather than emigrate.

As it happens when I thought of it I checked out the process for coffee roasting, the kinds and costs of the material available to do it, the cost of wholesale coffee beans, the cost of small packages of wholesale coffee beans to test the market and build it up. So far, from what I've seen, it's viable.

What's viable you may ask? Vacuum-packed 1/2kg or 1kg packs of coffee, freshly roasted in the last 7 days. And after 7 days? Chuck it (or find some other use for it) and put a fresh set of vacuum-packed 7 day roasted coffee packs on the shelf. How many packs does 1 person need to sell weekly to make a living?
 


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