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Irish citizen captured fighting with ISIS

Kevin Parlon

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Irish citizen captured in Syria by group fighting ISIS

Two talking points here I think. The first was this was inevitable and is interesting because it confirms a pattern so many have denied or poo-poo'd. The pattern I am talking about is the kind of guff uttered around the time of Margret Hassan's kidnap and murder. It went along the lines of "Once they see her Irish passport sure they'll leave her alone". Or "We support the Palestinians, they won't attack us". or "We're not bombing their countries". The general conceit here is that Islamic extremism is nothing but the blind reaction of some Muslims to Western aggression. Ireland is not immune to, and should expect every aspect and consequence of significant muslim population as has been felt by other countries. We're just behind the curve.

The second point is the citizenship revocation angle. There's another thread on the legality and ethics of it here. It should be noted that convicted Irish-Libyan terrorist referred to that thread still has his passport. We've not had such a clear cut example of someone failing in their loyalty to the State. If this case is what it looks like, I'll be watching the DOJ to see if they're going to do what Canada, Aus and the UK routinely do.
 


Jack O Neill

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Irish citizen captured in Syria by group fighting ISIS

Two talking points here I think. The first was this was inevitable and is interesting because it confirms a pattern so many have denied or poo-poo'd. The pattern I am talking about is the kind of guff uttered around the time of Margret Hassan's kidnap and murder. It went along the lines of "Once they see her Irish passport sure they'll leave her alone". Or "We support the Palestinians, they won't attack us". or "We're not bombing their countries". The general conceit here is that Islamic extremism is nothing but the blind reaction of some Muslims to Western aggression. Ireland is not immune to, and should expect every aspect and consequence of significant muslim population as has been felt by other countries. We're just behind the curve.

The second point is the citizenship revocation angle. There's another thread on the legality and ethics of it here. It should be noted that convicted Irish-Libyan terrorist referred to that thread still has his passport. We've not had such a clear cut example of someone failing in their loyalty to the State. If this case is what it looks like, I'll be watching the DOJ to see if they're going to do what Canada, Aus and the UK routinely do.
We have another Irish citizen arrested in Russia for spying for the greatesT terrorist state on earth , i am sure you would want him stripped of his citizenship as well ?
 

Sync

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1) No one incident ever confirms a pattern. You fundamentally misunderstand what a pattern is.

2) All for removing passports granted to anyone convicted of any violent crime really. Getting into the opinion based "Loyalty to the State" discussion seems misguided. You could pretty much make that argument against anyone with an Irish passport who takes up employment with any foreign govt or army.
 

Kevin Parlon

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1) No one incident ever confirms a pattern. You fundamentally misunderstand what a pattern is.
I wasn't very clear in what I was saying. It is this:

There exists a pattern with Islamic extremism in Western countries. First, domestic pressure groups, then naturalized fighting overseas, then maybe a domestic attack etc. My point was that we have heard it said that Ireland is different because we're friendly and so we shouldn't expect a similar pattern to pay out. And finally, this incident is another dot along the same pattern.

2) All for removing passports granted to anyone convicted of any violent crime really. Getting into the opinion based "Loyalty to the State" discussion seems misguided. You could pretty much make that argument against anyone with an Irish passport who takes up employment with any foreign govt or army.
The word in the act is "Fealty" (I think).
 

Sync

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The word in the act is "Fealty" (I think).
I fail to see how an Irish passport holder in the employ of the British army could be said to be displaying fealty when an IS member isn't. Just adjust the act to deal with violent offences. Any convictions, donezo. As it is in other countries. Needs to be far easier to remove passports from those granted them. They should be a privilege not a right.
 

TweetyBird

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The article in the OP mentions that he was on a garda watchlist re radicals, and left with his family in 2013 for the middle east. I have no issues with stripping him of citizenship, and his family for that matter.
 

gijoe

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He'll be on the Late Late in a few weeks being feted and lionised and that will be the end of the matter.
 

OrderoftheDragon

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He'll be on the Late Late in a few weeks being feted and lionised and that will be the end of the matter.
Doing "humanitarian" work no doubt, it's only a matter of time before one of the 10's of 1000's of "irish" citizens created out of thin air commits an atrocity somewhere in the world, which has absolutely nothing to do with the Irish people.
 

Jack O Neill

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The article in the OP mentions that he was on a garda watchlist re radicals, and left with his family in 2013 for the middle east. I have no issues with stripping him of citizenship, and his family for that matter.
Indeed , who of us would, as we should with the American spy arrested in Russia
 

cranberry1

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One is a captured jihadist in a war zone, the other is an alleged spy, over there for a wedding. But of course that's the same, right?
Lol, good point , and by the way to the other muppets in this thread he's not Irish he's a British citizen , the one who was allegedly spying on the Russians .
 

toughbutfair

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Giving Irish passports to Muslims is crazy. We know lots of them sympathize with the terrorists and some of them will join them. We have many Muslim terrorists in the country , the fact that this guy was being watched is evidence that the gardai knew. Whoever made the decision to give him the passport should be named and shamed. That would make them more careful about who they give passports to.
 

GabhaDubh

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Lol, good point , and by the way to the other muppets in this thread he's not Irish he's a British citizen , the one who was allegedly spying on the Russians .
Mr Paul Whelan born in Canada and served in the U.S. Marines, has allegedly 4 passports with Ireland and Britain rounding them out. Four countries working for his release, may help or maybe a hindrance.
 

Polybius

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I bet he was involved with some left wing "anti-war" groups before he left for Syria.
 

Polybius

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Mr Paul Whelan born in Canada and served in the U.S. Marines, has allegedly 4 passports with Ireland and Britain rounding them out. Four countries working for his release, may help or maybe a hindrance.
Why would anyone (other than a spy) want 4 passports?
 

Polybius

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Rte reported that many jihadists returned to Ireland , walking around free, no arrests, no revoking of citizenship
Our domestic security services are totally incompetent. They are reliant on the Brits to track Islamic terrorists in Ireland. The fact that Irish elites are committed to mass immigration and handing out citizenship like confetti doesn't help either.
 

Kevin Parlon

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I fail to see how an Irish passport holder in the employ of the British army could be said to be displaying fealty when an IS member isn't.
The EU regards ISIS as a terrorist group, working against our interests but doesn't regard the British Army as the same?

Just adjust the act to deal with violent offences. Any convictions, donezo. As it is in other countries. Needs to be far easier to remove passports from those granted them. They should be a privilege not a right.
By passport you mean citizenship? I think perhaps a first step would be for a MFJ to actually invoke this law. So far as I can tell, it has never been invoked. Even for this convicted Algerian terrorist with an Irish passport:
AliCharafDamache_large.jpg
 

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