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Irish education question


Ardillaun

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How common was teaching all subjects through Irish in Irish state schools since 1922? I have become embroiled in a debate on this elsewhere and I would like to get my hands on some good links that establish the facts.
 

Rural

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My Father (83 this year) did all his subjects through Irish, even Latin. North Mon. in Cork City.
 

Sister Mercedes

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How common was teaching all subjects through Irish in Irish state schools since 1922? I have become embroiled in a debate on this elsewhere and I would like to get my hands on some good links that establish the facts.
My mother was educated in a Convent-run State School in Tipperary in the 1940's and early 1950's, and all subjects were taught through Irish, even Maths. She resented it all of her life.
 

Barroso

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My mother was educated in a Convent-run State School in Tipperary in the 1940's and early 1950's, and all subjects were taught through Irish, even Maths. She resented it all of her life.
I find this weird. I also find it fascinating, and I'd like to understand more about her feelings on the matter - and other people's feelings, too. My own mother also received her secondary education through Irish, and had no gripes about it, quite the opposite, she found it a positive addition to her education that ensured that she could speak a second language fluently, a language that gave her a better understanding of her countries past particularly through songs and poetry learned at school.

So I'd be really interested in finding out more about your mother's experience. I wonder if you would mind answering some questions on your mother's experience?
1. Why did she resent it?
2. What exactly did she resent about it?
3. Was the education somehow worse because it was in Irish?
4. Who did she blame - her parents, the state, the nuns?

Many thanks for your contribution.
 

Carl Claudius

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its interesting. People today bitch that Irish is not taught properly in schools i.e after 12 years they cannot speak a word, but neglect to mention any footdragging on their part. There was a time when you came out of school more or less fluent in the language and definitely able to work in the civil service and people bitch. why?
 

Carl Claudius

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Was there?
obviously it depends on the person but I meet people in their forties who would not speak Irish on a daily basis yet if they need to speak it they can. They learnt Irish through the medium of Irish. these days, you start secondary school and go over the basics again. One wonders what they did in six years of primary school.
 

Sister Mercedes

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I find this weird. I also find it fascinating, and I'd like to understand more about her feelings on the matter - and other people's feelings, too. My own mother also received her secondary education through Irish, and had no gripes about it, quite the opposite, she found it a positive addition to her education that ensured that she could speak a second language fluently, a language that gave her a better understanding of her countries past particularly through songs and poetry learned at school.

So I'd be really interested in finding out more about your mother's experience. I wonder if you would mind answering some questions on your mother's experience?
1. Why did she resent it?
2. What exactly did she resent about it?
3. Was the education somehow worse because it was in Irish?
4. Who did she blame - her parents, the state, the nuns?

Many thanks for your contribution.
Irish was not a language that she knew outside of school. Her parents didn't know how to speak it, and English was the language that was spoken in the family home and among friends. So, to try to understand complex Maths is tough enough, but to try to understand it when it was being taught it in, what is in effect, a foreign language, was doubly, trebly, difficult.

My mother did not complete Secondary School, and did not go to University, even though in later life she was considered quite bright and well informed from self-educating. She didn't blame her parents; they had no option but to send her to the local State School. She blamed the State.
 

bluefirelog

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I remember someone I know who went to Drimnagh Castle saying they had an Irish stream there (he was in it and said there was no choice about it - you were just told you were in that stream.)
 

Rural

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I remember someone I know who went to Drimnagh Castle saying they had an Irish stream there (he was in it and said there was no choice about it - you were just told you were in that stream.)
Sounds a bit fishy to me.:)
 

Skyrocket

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How common was teaching all subjects through Irish in Irish state schools since 1922? I have become embroiled in a debate on this elsewhere and I would like to get my hands on some good links that establish the facts.
See Section 1.3 of this paper:

http://www.gaelscoileanna.ie/assets/Máire-Ní-Riordáin.pdf

It was mandatory to teach through Irish in primary schools since establishment of the Free State but implementation was poor. The requirement was abolished in 1959 by Dr. Patrick Hillery, then Minister of Education.

Teaching through all-Irish was less of a focus in secondary schools but it was linked to state funding meaning a it would be in the school's financial interests to teach through the medium of Irish.
 
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I remember someone I know who went to Drimnagh Castle saying they had an Irish stream there (he was in it and said there was no choice about it - you were just told you were in that stream.)
Yup. They had that.

You were also marked up at the time if your paper was done as Gaeilge. It was possible to obtain 100%+. Even in Maths, ironically.
 

Cellach

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obviously it depends on the person but I meet people in their forties who would not speak Irish on a daily basis yet if they need to speak it they can. They learnt Irish through the medium of Irish. these days, you start secondary school and go over the basics again. One wonders what they did in six years of primary school.
You'd find people in their twenties and people in their sixties who can do the same. I know plenty of people in their forties and sixties who would have gone through the primary and secondary system and haven't a word of Irish. I am afraid that you example does not demonstrate that there was a time when people would leave school with a good command of Irish. There are still people who leave school with a good command of Irish. There are still people who leave school that would struggle to tell you the time of day in Irish. All this signifies is that nothing has really changed at all, an in effect, would appear to completely invalidate your previous point.
 

Walter Tirel

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Sep 17, 2007
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Myself, I had an Irish medium eduation at Primary & Secondary (in the 80s-90s). In response the original query: There was not much pure Irish medium in schools. However, everyone of every age would know terms such as 'anseo', 'as láthair' & 'An bhfuil cead agam dul go dtí an leithreas'.

With some subjects, Irish medium had less difference than others. For example with Maths, not much as there was not much words or descriptive aspect. This would contrast with science where even Latin terms were translated into Irish.

The bonus marks for doing state exams are of little difference. Depending on the subject it is 5% or 10% of the marks earned. Even at that, it runs on a sliding scale so that it does not apply for a grade over 80%.
 

SayItAintSo

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Sep 30, 2011
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My father, nearly 70, was educated through Irish in a southside Dublin (public) school. He speaks Irish very regularly in his day to day life.
 

Clytemnestra

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Jan 10, 2013
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I took my Leaving Cert. in Spiddal. All classes were taught in English AND Irish in most classes, to such a degree that one could decide on the day of our state exams which language to take the exam in. I know not many had that choice but it was amazing watching teachers in science or geography teach their classes in BOTH languages and our school had great results. Don't know how they did it.
 

Carl Claudius

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Both my parents said they did everything in school through Irish...
just like in the german school in Dublin and any Lycee outside of France. neither langauge would be spoken widely outside of these schools.

Its a s if Irish is a real language.
 

Carl Claudius

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My father, nearly 70, was educated through Irish in a southside Dublin (public) school. He speaks Irish very regularly in his day to day life.
which was the purpose of his secondary school education. these days second level education is a preparation for college only.
 
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