Irish government squandering taxpayer money on Palestinians.

Buchaill Dana

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So, the above is what you consider 'debate' consists of. :thumbsup:

That checks out actually, with your general demeanour on this forum.
Hold up.

You started out claiming there has never been debste on the issue in parliament and there is a consensus in the media. This is because everyone who disagrees with you is a bigot.

When both those lines were exposed as lies, it wasnt really a debate and they arent really journalists.

You focked this one up. Away and do your pressups.
 


redneck

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Israel is a big competitor of IDA Ireland for investment. Palestine/Jordan/Egypt is not.
 

roc_

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As I said, its only a debate when you win...
Here's another Irish "debate" on the issue for you then. Another one that you would no doubt say the anti-Israel side "won". This time it's a debate that occurred in an Irish university. Have a watch of it, then play back the Boyd Barrett video. Tell me if you think there is at heart that much difference between them. In particular you might note the exact same messages in the opening, and in the position as to the kind of people the "Zionists" are.


[video=youtube;1gkiGUBAM7g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=21&v=1gkiGUBAM7g[/video]
 

Clanrickard

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Here's another Irish "debate" on the issue for you then. Another one that you would no doubt say the anti-Israel side "won". This time it's a debate that occurred in an Irish university. Have a watch of it, then play back the Boyd Barrett video. Tell me if you think there is at heart that much difference between them. In particular you might note the exact same messages in the opening, and in the position as to the kind of people the "Zionists" are.


[video=youtube;1gkiGUBAM7g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=21&v=1gkiGUBAM7g[/video]
Remember Richard Boyd Bigot shared a platform with Hamas a terrorist organisation that wants to introduce Sharia Law a la Saudi Arabia.
 

Lagertha

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No, I mean the majority of Irish people. If it has the added bonus of annoying the racists and alt right types, thats fine with me too
The Irish people haven't been consulted about any of the spending being done on Foreign Aid, or these scholarships. Why should Paddy and Mary miss out on a scholarship while Mohammad from the arse end of Palestine is flown over here at taxpayer expense, educated, housed, clothed and fed at taxpayer expense?
 

Lagertha

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See what i mean about annoying the right knobs?

The only difference between lagertha and you is he hates all brown people. You are more selective.
I'm a woman, I don't hate brown people, I hate Islam and I hate lazy people who shout racist. I do hate you though, you are a sad coont.
 

roc_

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... It shows a lack of argument.
As I have profoundly discovered on this forum, arguments presented that might in any way vindicate the Israelis are completely beside the point.

Of course I do not lack these arguments, even I assiduously back them up. Even my enemies on here admit that. But arguments that might vindicate the Israelis are inevitably dismissed by people like you in one of other underhand manner. Such arguments may not enter consideration because they interfere with this neo-liberal (typically on p.ie anyway) feel-good dogma of 'oppressed' and 'oppressor'.

And the Israeli ambassador in the above video didn't lack arguments in that committee room, if you listen. But also listen and observe how his arguments are also completely beside the point, and dismissed out of hand in the usual dismissive manner. Since they upset the preconceptions of Boyd Barrett and the other institutionalised anti-Israel bastards sitting alongside him.

This dismissal of arguments is par for the course. Just as in the above video at NUIG, though sometimes having a little bit more sophistication. But even you can see Palestinian human activists that present similar arguments that go against the anti-Israel dogma are treated in the same manner. e.g. Univ. of Chicago Event Ends Abruptly After Speaker Is Shouted Down by "Pro-Palestinian" Activists. The Target of Their Wrath May Surprise You.

It is true though the attendees in the article above ended with 'lack of argument'. Nothing made its way through to them in the end, did it.
 

Buchaill Dana

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The Irish people haven't been consulted about any of the spending being done on Foreign Aid, or these scholarships. Why should Paddy and Mary miss out on a scholarship while Mohammad from the arse end of Palestine is flown over here at taxpayer expense, educated, housed, clothed and fed at taxpayer expense?
So you are arguing against all foreign aid?
 

roc_

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Remember Richard Boyd Bigot shared a platform with Hamas a terrorist organisation that wants to introduce Sharia Law a la Saudi Arabia.
Not surprising.
 

Buchaill Dana

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As I have profoundly discovered on this forum, arguments presented that might in any way vindicate the Israelis are completely beside the point.

Of course I do not lack these arguments, even I assiduously back them up. Even my enemies on here admit that. But arguments that might vindicate the Israelis are inevitably dismissed by people like you in one of other underhand manner. Such arguments may not enter consideration because they interfere with this neo-liberal (typically on p.ie anyway) feel-good dogma of 'oppressed' and 'oppressor'.

And the Israeli ambassador in the above video didn't lack arguments in that committee room, if you listen. But also listen and observe how his arguments are also completely beside the point, and dismissed out of hand in the usual dismissive manner. Since they upset the preconceptions of Boyd Barrett and the other institutionalised anti-Israel bastards sitting alongside him.

This dismissal of arguments is par for the course. Just as in the above video at NUIG, though sometimes having a little bit more sophistication. But even you can see Palestinian human activists that present similar arguments that go against the anti-Israel dogma are treated in the same manner. e.g. Univ. of Chicago Event Ends Abruptly After Speaker Is Shouted Down by "Pro-Palestinian" Activists. The Target of Their Wrath May Surprise You.

It is true though the attendees in the article above ended with 'lack of argument'. Nothing made its way through to them in the end, did it.
So you were caught lying about tbe dail. Lying about the press. Now you are onto student politics and claimi g opposition to opression is a neo liberal construct.

And im a retard?.
 

Golah veNekhar

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Remember Richard Boyd Bigot shared a platform with Hamas a terrorist organisation that wants to introduce Sharia Law a la Saudi Arabia.
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. You really know so very little about conflict don't you? The vast majority of indigenous Palestinians, and this includes the the vast bulk of Hamas, follow the Shafi‘i Madhhab while as we find in Saudi Arabia that among the Sunnis there (the Kingdom does have a significant Shia majority who are often forgotten about) that they nearly allow follow the Salafi understanding of the Hanbali Madhhab (the Hanbali is smallest of four main Sunni Madhabs). So no they do not want to introduce Sharia Law a la Saudi Arabia.

The thing is that given the horrific levels of food poverty especially children and the elderly among Jews in Israel/Palestine the place needs some type of Sharia Law in order to bring in some basic social justice. This is the thing though is it not, and it is the same thing with my brother in law, your "Philo-Semitism" is when you boil down basically about opposition to basic social justice. And I found a very interesting essay, though there are some problems with it, on a Jewish site about your type of "Philo-Semitism":

https://www.jewdas.org/philosemitism-is-the-new-antisemitism/

The Jew who wrote it really has you lads nailed.
 

roc_

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So you were caught lying about tbe dail.
Your kangaroo court lynching of the Israeli ambassador in a committee room is still "a debate in the Dail"? You're actually sticking to that position?


Lying about the press.
I never mentioned the press. You presented purposely controversial columnists writing on a one-way channel as your argument, as evidence that refutes the notion of there being a lack of real political debate on the Arab-Israel issue in the Dail and at meaningful political levels in this country.


Now you are onto student politics
I pointed to the parallel between what happened in NUIG and in that committee room. It was at heart the same phenomenon, only a bit more sophisticated. - It is a good point I'm making, albeit one you could never acknowledge, thus the usual glib dismissal.


and claimi g opposition to opression is a neo liberal construct.
It is the core of the present paucity of thought and crisis in liberalism. Not "opposition to oppression" as you would prefer to put it, but gravitating to a dichotomy of oppressed and oppressor in any situation, the motive of which is more about feeling good about oneself, than of wishing to improve the situation. In fact, it is preferable that it remains the same, so that you can live vicariously through these 'oppressed', bravely fighting the evil 'oppressor' etc.

This is not a new thing, either. I never said that. I was referring only to one present incarnation, and what is most ubiquitous on this particular forum. If you visit ****************** for example you can find the exact same thing dressed in various different garbs.


And im a retard?.
Your ideological propensities apparently reduce you to near enough the intellectual level of a monkey, yes.
 

Shpake

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Agreed. I'd think the "overwhelming majority" in Ireland wouldn't view Israel vs. Palestine as such a simplistic "four legs good, two legs bad" situation. In my experience, many people will condemn specific actions, but it's too much of a sh*tshow to unconditionally support one side against the other. People will hedge.

Politician and activists don't necessary express the actual views of the majority of people.
I'd think the "overwhelming majority" in Ireland wouldn't view Israel vs. Palestine as such a simplistic "four legs good, two legs bad" situation.
The younger generation seem to be more sympathetic to the Palestinian side from my experience. But you can talk all day (and all night) about the justice of the situation and not get very far. A completely different topic is : "How to break the deadlock/ How to move forward."
I'd point out that Israel now is kind of under siege what with all this rocket technology becoming available. Small wonder that the sense of paranoia is there.
As for the Irish government doling out money to Arabs and African ...
They must have money to burn.
 

Clanrickard

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Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. You really know so very little about conflict don't you? The vast majority of indigenous Palestinians, and this includes the the vast bulk of Hamas, follow the Shafi‘i Madhhab while as we find in Saudi Arabia that among the Sunnis there (the Kingdom does have a significant Shia majority who are often forgotten about) that they nearly allow follow the Salafi understanding of the Hanbali Madhhab (the Hanbali is smallest of four main Sunni Madhabs). So no they do not want to introduce Sharia Law a la Saudi Arabia.

The thing is that given the horrific levels of food poverty especially children and the elderly among Jews in Israel/Palestine the place needs some type of Sharia Law in order to bring in some basic social justice. This is the thing though is it not, and it is the same thing with my brother in law, your "Philo-Semitism" is when you boil down basically about opposition to basic social justice. And I found a very interesting essay, though there are some problems with it, on a Jewish site about your type of "Philo-Semitism":

https://www.jewdas.org/philosemitism-is-the-new-antisemitism/

The Jew who wrote it really has you lads nailed.
 

Golah veNekhar

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It is the core of the present paucity of thought and crisis in liberalism. Not "opposition to oppression" as you would prefer to put it, but gravitating to a dichotomy of oppressed and oppressor in any situation, the motive of which is more about feeling good about oneself, than of wishing to improve the situation. In fact, it is preferable that it remains the same, so that you can live vicariously through these 'oppressed', bravely fighting the evil 'oppressor' etc.

This is not a new thing, either. I never said that. I was referring only to one present incarnation, and what is most ubiquitous on this particular forum. If you visit ****************** for example you can find the exact same thing dressed in various different garbs.

Your ideological propensities apparently reduce you to near enough the intellectual level of a monkey, yes.
There is indeed a crisis of Liberalism. Jonathan Cook wrote eloquently on it recently in an article that was published on Unz report. However you I suspect mean something else by this. You mean the crisis of people I would label as Judaeo-Nazis to use the term coined by Professor Yeshayahu Leibowitz for them such as Melanie Philips and Phyllis Chesler (and there are others where they came from), both former "Liberals", caused by the fact that Jewish success both in the United States and in Palestine, has meant that Jews do not receive the sympathy that they used from the likes of Michael Davitt et al because Jews are no longer the victims of oppression, and even worse than this people sympathizing with the victims of oppressive Jews. Yes Christians did oppress Jews in the past, though far more rarely than Jews make out, and on the grounds of them being victims, you demand that people sympathize with them automatically.

However you believe that when the same is applied to the indigenous Palestinians than people are being all wrong. It creates a certain bind. This problem though only arises if you follow a tribal thinking where the non-Jewish "Other" never exists as persons in their own right but only exists as objects who should be judged solely by their relation to the Jews. I do accuse of Dana of being anti-Semitic, but he is anti-Semitic after the manner of Clanrickard and former weslyan here and not after the manner of a David Duke let alone a Heinrich Himmler. Jews do not exist as people for them who are persons in their own right. They only exist for Dana as something to virtue signal over (whether it be in regards to imagined "anti-Semitism" that he loves condemning or in relation to the admittedly horrific injustices being carried out on the indigenous population in Palestine), for Clanrickard and former weslyan Jews only exist in relation to how useful they are in their struggles against basic social justice whether that be in Ireland, Britain or Palestine.
 

roc_

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... This problem though only arises if you follow a tribal thinking where the non-Jewish "Other" exists as persons in their own right but only exists as objects who should be judged solely by their relation to the Jews. I do accuse of Dana of being anti-Semitic, but he is anti-Semitic after the manner of Clanrickard and former weslyan here and not after the manner of a David Duke let alone a Heinrich Himmler. Jews do not exist as people for them who are persons in their own right. They only exist for Dana as something to virtue signal over (whether it be in regards to imagined "anti-Semitism" that he loves condemning or in relation to the admittedly horrific injustices being carried out on the indigenous population in Palestine), for Clanrickard and former weslyan Jews only exist in relation to how useful they are in their struggles against basic social justice whether that be in Ireland, Britain or Palestine.
You're doing a couple of devious, dishonest things in that one sentence I've bolded.

First, alleging Jews are tribal, with implication, rather than a community bound by a large number of social, cultural, historical, and other bonds.

Second, purporting that the antisemitic stereotypes regarding their ideas on the "goyim" should be taken as true in a general sense, rather than basically vile stereotypes promulgated to incite hatred against Jews.

Third, turning around the accusation that has been levelled at anti-Zionists of the ilk of yourself and Dana, throwing it back at Jews, and other posters on here, accusing them of the same thing you are accused of. (One can only assume it's the only defense you can muster.) E.g. To "Pro-Palestinians": Calling for an awakening of conscience: Palestinians are real people

Need I go on? It's always, perpetually, the same type of thing from you.
 
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Buchaill Dana

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You are comparing me to that bigot?

Its sad that you can only defend your position by smearing anyone who simply disagrees with you. Scumbag politics
 

roc_

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You are comparing me to that bigot?
Read the linked article. Tell me whether or not it is directed at you. That is the only comparison I called on, nothing else.
 

freewillie

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No, I mean the majority of Irish people. If it has the added bonus of annoying the racists and alt right types, thats fine with me too
The majority of Irish people couldn't find Israel or Palestine on a fûcking map
 


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