Irish government squandering taxpayer money on Palestinians.

Lagertha

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You see you can never win with you guys.

When an organisation is set up to try and present Israel's case, it can then be outright dismissed as just "Zionist propaganda", or "hasbara".

Very convenient. It means you only have to listen to one side of the argument, with no defence brooked.

And the only time I ever cited Breitbart was when Caroline Glick wrote in it. Because Glick has a highly coherent case to make, and is well capable of making it.

While leftist antisemites on this forum go around shrilly asserting that Israelis have zero rights to Judea and Samaria, well, most Israelis make no apologies for making claim to those rights, and Glick articulates that case well.

And I believe she should be heard in an environment where fat little Irish men with significant personal problems are running around shouting "no, no, they have zero rights".

You then bring up "Breaking the Silence", a nearly 15 year old propaganda initiative, stating that since it is from a "trusted source" (the Guardian) that that therefore forms the "honesty and reality" of this conflict, that it is therefore "not propaganda" etc.

To you this initiative is "...honesty and reality from a trusted news source , not one of your propaganda sites..."

But
, - was it not demonstrated beyond all doubt that a large part of the funding of the spuriously named 'breaking the silence' initiative was made dependent on their gathering a minimum number of incriminating testimonies against the Israeli army before it could even be drawn down?

Yes, it was. Prove me wrong.

- Were the problems with the anonymous and unverifiable hearsay testimonies of this initiative not highlighted?

- Were the initiative's funders not shown up as having spurious motives, obvious antipathy towards Israel, and clear ulterior political agendas?

- Was it not demonstrated that this initiative was certainly not intended for a domestic Israeli audience. (Which basically told us all we need to know about the real intent of this initiative?)

You see, you're not even aware of the case the Israelis made in their defense regarding "Breaking the Silence". Because you dismissed it all as "Hasbara, Zionist, Propaganda...". You never even heard it.

As you never, ever fail to do. Because you just deep down need the Israeli Jews to be irredeemable monsters, in your reality, don't you.
You're wasting your breath. Too many have a kind of selective bias where Muslims can do no wrong and Jews can do no right. Madness that so many sheep to the slaughter want to defend Islam, the most intolerant blood thirsty ideology on the planet.
 


former wesleyan

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25,492
Why would I need to ..I have reputable respected sources from a wide variety of News outlets who are generally very Israel friendly but even they cant masquerade the horrific nature of the brutal occupation

Maybe if you didn't wallow in hate sites like Memri Breitbart and other extremist propaganda sites , or seek out those on twitter who confirm your every prejudice (without a scintilla of oversight or proof) you wouldn't be a Palestinian hating bigot or coming on here justifying the deaths of the preganant and toddlers , without a hint of decency or compassion for the suffering endured by Palestinians
I wasn't talking about the occupation. I mean quite simply that that Wiki article on MEMRI has been more or less the same for the past ten years. Now, given the diligence of both sides in the conflict in their search for advantage it's strange that that page hasn't filled up with more examples of mistranslation, isn't it ? I'm not, btw, arguing against the charge that MEMRI seeks out the most egregious examples of racism. How do you find their work on Russian translation ? Accurate or not ?
 

Speedfreak

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Why would I need to ..I have reputable respected sources from a wide variety of News outlets who are generally very Israel friendly but even they cant masquerade the horrific nature of the brutal occupation...
Taking only one recent example, did you follow this debate?


First, the significance of the historical antisemitic tropes contained in it, and how the Guardian by publishing them in effect signals to people like you that it is "ok", "acceptable" to start using them again.

Second, the deliberate omission, never rectified, to properly inform their readers that the Israeli people voted for Likud and Netanyahu as for all his faults he has kept Israelis safe.

He completely reversed the trend of what happened post-Oslo when there was a more than doubling of terrorist attacks and fatalities against Israelis, and a terrible rash of suicide bombings instead of the expected peace and improvements.

In other words put aside the Guardian left-wing bias and think for yourself, and it is quite understandable that post Oslo, after the concessions the Israelis made at the expense of their physical safety, and the sacrifice of some of their rights to their historic homeland, that they would then refuse to compromise any more on their security or their historic rights to their homeland if doing so only resulted in the opposite of what they had hoped for.

And btw it is only in those two aspects that in reality the Israelis have swung right, as they are instinctively quite a left-leaning people, and no doubt would swing back again once the attacks on them by the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah cheered on and materially supported by western idiots like you ceased.
 

brughahaha

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I wasn't talking about the occupation. I mean quite simply that that Wiki article on MEMRI has been more or less the same for the past ten years. Now, given the diligence of both sides in the conflict in their search for advantage it's strange that that page hasn't filled up with more examples of mistranslation, isn't it ? I'm not, btw, arguing against the charge that MEMRI seeks out the most egregious examples of racism. How do you find their work on Russian translation ? Accurate or not ?

Which part of "Why would I need to ..I have reputable respected sources from a wide variety of News outlets" are you struggling with?

The purpose of Memri is to promote an anti arab pro zionist narrative ..and it has been caught lying ..why would I ever rely on such a site for anything? ..I repeat unlike you , I don't inhabit the hate sites of the internet or follow hate filled loons on twitter ..........

And as your posts show, the damage consuming such hate filled propaganda causes its consumers
 

brughahaha

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roc_

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Which part of "Why would I need to ..I have reputable respected sources from a wide variety of News outlets" are you struggling with?
The part that makes you unable to see that the problem lies not primarily with the facts presented, but in the selectivity of them, and in the relevant facts not being presented. - So that you only get a partial or "biased" view of reality.

Now, there are a number of groups set up to bring the missing relevant facts to your attention. - But you state that you will not acknowledge those groups, preferring to remain in your biased, partial view of reality.

(Of course you are quite free to contest any of these new relevant facts people try to bring to your attention. Only you never do, preferring to dismiss them out of hand with one or other well-worn rhetorical device.)

Then, there is also the part that involves understanding the genesis of the stories that you read in your "reputable respected sources" like the Guardian. Let's follow the chain so.

Where do Guardian journalists get their stories from? The answer is typically from UN agencies and official bodies like that.

Where do the UN agencies and various official bodies get these stories? The answer is typically from larger human rights NGOs, like Amnesty International.

Where does Amnesty International get these stories? The answer is from lower level NGO's like B'tselem and so on.

Where do the lower level NGO's like B'tselem get their stories? The answer is from one and two man NGO's, equipped with cameras by the likes of Bt'selem, based in Ramalah and Gaza.

Now here's the thing - These one and two man NGO's depend for their livelihood on the money they receive from these stories. But on what basis do they get paid?

Answer, if they're the first to report injustice by Jews to Palestinians.


How can they ensure their stories will be taken up? Answer, the more suffering, distress, and brutalisation, the more "marketable" their story is.

Now, if that's the case, what's to stop them providing false or distorted stories to ensure their livelihood?

Answer, nothing at all.

For have you ever heard of any Palestinian ever being take to task for fabricating allegations of Israeli human rights violations?

Now you know why that is? - Answer, because say if someone in Amnesty wants to check the facts, what does he have to do? - He has to go back and ask the same one-man Palestinian NGO who supplied the story!

And that's not to mention either that from bottom to top in all of these groups involved in this process you have ideologically anti-Israel partisans with a deep antipathy towards Israel working as personnel.

Also at the very, very top, where these stories are eventually consumed, you have let's call them "market forces", people like yourself, basically incentivising the bottom of the chain to produce these stories demonising Jews. Your strong desire to consume these type of stories is monetised.

Immagine1.jpg
 

brughahaha

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Messages
15,379
The part that makes you unable to see that the problem lies not primarily with the facts presented, but in the selectivity of them, and in the relevant facts not being presented. - So that you only get a partial or "biased" view of reality.
You probably need professional help for Paranoid delusions

The Guardian ,The Times ,The Dail , RTE , Amnesty , The UN Every person who disagrees with you and thinks Israel Occupation of Palestine is horrific and Brutal

All are being brainwashed by forces only you and other zionists can see ...

The dead children , the land theft , The Brutality we've all seen , the horrific statistics , the footage, the facts ...all some massive conspiracy

And the true harbingers of Truth and Justice are sites like Memri, Breitbart, various other propaganda sites and of course prophets like you

Christ on a Bike !!!!!

You need help ....seriously !!!!!!
 

Apple in Eden

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Joined
Sep 15, 2016
Messages
1,659
Taking only one recent example, did you follow this debate?


First, the significance of the historical antisemitic tropes contained in it, and how the Guardian by publishing them in effect signals to people like you that it is "ok", "acceptable" to start using them again.

Second, the deliberate omission, never rectified, to properly inform their readers that the Israeli people voted for Likud and Netanyahu as for all his faults he has kept Israelis safe.

He completely reversed the trend of what happened post-Oslo when there was a more than doubling of terrorist attacks and fatalities against Israelis, and a terrible rash of suicide bombings instead of the expected peace and improvements.

In other words put aside the Guardian left-wing bias and think for yourself, and it is quite understandable that post Oslo, after the concessions the Israelis made at the expense of their physical safety, and the sacrifice of some of their rights to their historic homeland, that they would then refuse to compromise any more on their security or their historic rights to their homeland if doing so only resulted in the opposite of what they had hoped for.

And btw it is only in those two aspects that in reality the Israelis have swung right, as they are instinctively quite a left-leaning people, and no doubt would swing back again once the attacks on them by the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah cheered on and materially supported by western idiots like you ceased.
Yes the way the Palestinians abused the Oslo agreement has largely been airbrushed out of history. It has set back the prospects of a lasting deal 25 years and limited the possibility for compromise. The vacuum has been filled by a shift towards extremism on both sides. Very little hope for any movement most likely for another generation at least.
 

Herr Rommel

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Jul 28, 2016
Messages
8,919
We shouldn't be giving them a penny. There are enough oil rich Muslim Arab states who should have taken those people in after the Jews got their rightful lands back.
 

roc_

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Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
6,246
You probably need professional help for Paranoid delusions

The Guardian ,The Times ,The Dail , RTE , Amnesty , The UN Every person who disagrees with you and thinks Israel Occupation of Palestine is horrific and Brutal

All are being brainwashed by forces only you and other zionists can see ...

The dead children , the land theft , The Brutality we've all seen , the horrific statistics , the footage, the facts ...all some massive conspiracy

And the true harbingers of Truth and Justice are sites like Memri, Breitbart, various other propaganda sites and of course prophets like you

Christ on a Bike !!!!!

You need help ....seriously !!!!!!
No one denies the brutality and oppression that regularly manifests in the occupation of the West Bank or in the warding off the various Iranian proxies based in Gaza and Lebanon. However the Memri videos and all the other sources you dismiss out of hand demonstrate that to jump from that to the deduction that the Israelis are doing it out of some innate gratuitousness evilness, a love of inflicting suffering on Arabs or something, is plain wrong.

The issue is that you cannot let go of your offensive, fallacious idea that the Israelis do what they do because of "...a racist supremacist ideology closer to German facism than anything we've seen in 70 years and beyond even apartheid...". (to give only one example of your rhetoric that pops up for me).

You incite hatred, because since Nazism has become in the postwar world the defining metaphor of absolute evil, if therefore Israel and the Israelis are like the Nazis, it thus becomes a moral obligation to wage war against Israel, against this "evil", and even it justifies and legitimises the taking of yet another retribution against them, say another Holocaust.

Whereas I take the time to post to you here now, because you need to be brought to understand that basically you have a duty as an educated person to see the whole reality, not just the small part of it that you only want to see. You have a duty to listen to the perspective say of ordinary well educated Palestinians who see the resolution to their problems through taking responsibility for their own actions, not just to listen to the perspective of the Hamas or PA zealots, or their western supporters.

But instead you prefer to set yourself up as judge, jury and executioner of the Israelis. You don't even feel like you need to properly inform yourself. Rather you easily and glibly portray everyone who disagrees with you as evil, which obviously is a kind of cultish emotional and moral blackmail, a kind of secular puritanism if you will.

What comes strongly across from your posts, a rank whiff, is this overwhelming need you have to think well of yourself, that you are superior to those you so often and so glibly call "knuckle-dragging, bigoted racists utterly consumed with hatred of the Palestinians" and more in that vein.

You refuse to think in a critical manner so that you can keep this shtick of yours up.
 

brughahaha

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Messages
15,379
No one denies the brutality and oppression that regularly manifests in the occupation of the West Bank or in the warding off the various Iranian proxies based in Gaza and Lebanon. However the Memri videos and all the other sources you dismiss out of hand demonstrate that to jump from that to the deduction that the Israelis are doing it out of some innate gratuitousness evilness, a love of inflicting suffering on Arabs or something, is plain wrong.
No they are doing it so they can steal the Land to create a bigger Israel and force the Palestinians into miserable slave like Banustans whom they can use ....which IS just plain wrong

Its hardly new or even original . Ever the same whatever the name it was given ...Colonialism ...Lebensraum ...Apartheid ........Zionism

And the manner of it, is heinous, murderous , evil and brutal ..which IS just plain wrong (if youre a normal decent compassionate human being)

And they get away with it by getting support from vile bigoted creeps like you , blind and uncaring to the suffering of the Palestinians
 

A Voice

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Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
7,247
The dead children , the land theft , The Brutality we've all seen , the horrific statistics , the footage, the facts ...all some massive conspiracy

And the true harbingers of Truth and Justice are sites like Memri, Breitbart, various other propaganda sites and of course prophets like you

Christ on a Bike !!!!!

You need help ....seriously !!!!!!
You're consuming a fetish commodity. Get some perspective and get back to us.

 

roc_

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Messages
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... No, they are doing it so they can steal the Land to create a bigger Israel and force the Palestinians into miserable slave like Banustans whom they can use...
You have very regularly implied they do it out of innate "racism" and other malign deficiencies of character, culture and so on. But let's take this new deduction you posit. What evidence do you have for this?
 

kalipa

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Apr 19, 2010
Messages
10,148
Yes, I had noticed the anti-Israel vehemence come right down, massively, in you, and of course I was wondering about why you finally took a good look around you on p.ish and finally opened your eyes to the utter stupidity and vicious bile masquerading as "free speech" and shut your account etc. Well that explains it. I'm glad your travails are being put behind you, and I genuinely wish you all the best for the future and a happy retirement etc.
My "travails" (bereavement) as you call it happened nearly 20 years ago. I was kept busy with educating children and running 3 businesses. It was nothing to what other people have to go through .
Thank you for the good wishes.

I wasn't on PI for a long time and when I did start posting again I didn't like the direction it had taken. I think I made it clear how I felt lol,
There are a few here on these threads that would fit right in over there.

I still disagree with almost everthing Israel does, even more so since Trump presented them with Palestine on a plate.
 

kalipa

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Messages
10,148
You're wasting your breath. Too many have a kind of selective bias where Muslims can do no wrong and Jews can do no right. Madness that so many sheep to the slaughter want to defend Islam, the most intolerant blood thirsty ideology on the planet.
I don't think I have ever seen anyone on these fora say that Muslims can do no wrong. Stop exaggerating
 

Lagertha

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Mar 23, 2017
Messages
4,460
I don't think I have ever seen anyone on these fora say that Muslims can do no wrong. Stop exaggerating
Oh please, boil the Israeli Palestinian thing down to basics and you have Jew versus Muslim. The liberals love a good oppressed Muslim story, just have to look the other way and pretend that more often than not it's the Muslim who is the aggressor. It was Muslims who drove the Jews out of the Middle East, after they forced them to wear yellow symbols to identify them and refused to allow the men to ride horses, instead they forced them to ride donkeys. Why? Because they wouldn't accept Mohammad as a prophet. Sick to fooking death of fooking Muslims and there deluded supporters.
 

Frank Miller

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Apr 16, 2019
Messages
68
We shouldn't be giving them a penny. There are enough oil rich Muslim Arab states who should have taken those people in after the Jews got their rightful lands back.
The Muslim brothers like to hold on to their moola. Starving Palestinians are a good distraction from their own human rights violations
 

Dame_Enda

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Dec 14, 2011
Messages
53,104
Oh please, boil the Israeli Palestinian thing down to basics and you have Jew versus Muslim. The liberals love a good oppressed Muslim story, just have to look the other way and pretend that more often than not it's the Muslim who is the aggressor. It was Muslims who drove the Jews out of the Middle East, after they forced them to wear yellow symbols to identify them and refused to allow the men to ride horses, instead they forced them to ride donkeys. Why? Because they wouldn't accept Mohammad as a prophet. Sick to fooking death of fooking Muslims and there deluded supporters.
It was not the Muslims who "drove the Jews out of the Middle East". That was the Romans and the Byzantines. In fact for centuries, the Muslims were reluctant to accept conversions to Islam because they would lose revenues from the Jizya tax paid by Jews, Christians and (in Iran) Zoroastrians.
 

kalipa

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Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
10,148
Oh please, boil the Israeli Palestinian thing down to basics and you have Jew versus Muslim. The liberals love a good oppressed Muslim story, just have to look the other way and pretend that more often than not it's the Muslim who is the aggressor. It was Muslims who drove the Jews out of the Middle East, after they forced them to wear yellow symbols to identify them and refused to allow the men to ride horses, instead they forced them to ride donkeys. Why? Because they wouldn't accept Mohammad as a prophet. Sick to fooking death of fooking Muslims and there deluded supporters.
You are talking through your backside and your childish swearing makes you look like a barely literate thug
 

Apple in Eden

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Sep 15, 2016
Messages
1,659
Great post.
No one denies the brutality and oppression that regularly manifests in the occupation of the West Bank or in the warding off the various Iranian proxies based in Gaza and Lebanon. However the Memri videos and all the other sources you dismiss out of hand demonstrate that to jump from that to the deduction that the Israelis are doing it out of some innate gratuitousness evilness, a love of inflicting suffering on Arabs or something, is plain wrong.

The issue is that you cannot let go of your offensive, fallacious idea that the Israelis do what they do because of "...a racist supremacist ideology closer to German facism than anything we've seen in 70 years and beyond even apartheid...". (to give only one example of your rhetoric that pops up for me).

You incite hatred, because since Nazism has become in the postwar world the defining metaphor of absolute evil, if therefore Israel and the Israelis are like the Nazis, it thus becomes a moral obligation to wage war against Israel, against this "evil", and even it justifies and legitimises the taking of yet another retribution against them, say another Holocaust.

Whereas I take the time to post to you here now, because you need to be brought to understand that basically you have a duty as an educated person to see the whole reality, not just the small part of it that you only want to see. You have a duty to listen to the perspective say of ordinary well educated Palestinians who see the resolution to their problems through taking responsibility for their own actions, not just to listen to the perspective of the Hamas or PA zealots, or their western supporters.

But instead you prefer to set yourself up as judge, jury and executioner of the Israelis. You don't even feel like you need to properly inform yourself. Rather you easily and glibly portray everyone who disagrees with you as evil, which obviously is a kind of cultish emotional and moral blackmail, a kind of secular puritanism if you will.

What comes strongly across from your posts, a rank whiff, is this overwhelming need you have to think well of yourself, that you are superior to those you so often and so glibly call "knuckle-dragging, bigoted racists utterly consumed with hatred of the Palestinians" and more in that vein.

You refuse to think in a critical manner so that you can keep this shtick of yours up.
Great p
No they are doing it so they can steal the Land to create a bigger Israel and force the Palestinians into miserable slave like Banustans whom they can use ....which IS just plain wrong

Its hardly new or even original . Ever the same whatever the name it was given ...Colonialism ...Lebensraum ...Apartheid ........Zionism

And the manner of it, is heinous, murderous , evil and brutal ..which IS just plain wrong (if youre a normal decent compassionate human being)

And they get away with it by getting support from vile bigoted creeps like you , blind and uncaring to the suffering of the Palestinians
Moronic responde.
 


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