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Irish health care spending at 11.4% of national income is now high by international standards but risk of major service breakdowns


patslatt

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Irish health care spending at 11.4% of national income is now high by international standards but risk of major service breakdowns

See Ireland’s health spending among highest in OECD · TheJournal.ie

This 11.4% figure is high by international standards. So hypochondriac public sector advocates shouldn't disingenuously quote the lower percentage of spending to GDP without mentioning that Irish GDP uniquely is overstated by about 20 to 25% due to multinational financial transactions.

Given this high spending,the government should be well able to maintain front line services. But given the news reports of withdrawal of services from very vulnerable elderly people and disabled children,and in view of the hundreds of millions budget deficit in the HSE budget,what chance is there of avoiding major service breakdowns?
 

commonman

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I think the cuts will be on the front line services especially when you have a minster that has not got a clue what he at, he will look for the easy way out.
 

patslatt

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I think the cuts will be on the front line services especially when you have a minster that has not got a clue what he at, he will look for the easy way out.
His naming in Stubbs Gazette,a major public financial embarrassment,doesn't inspire confidence in his financial management.
 

nakatomi

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See Ireland’s health spending among highest in OECD · TheJournal.ie

This 11.4% figure is high by international standards. So hypochondriac public sector advocates shouldn't disingenuously quote the lower percentage of spending to GDP without mentioning that Irish GDP uniquely is overstated by about 20 to 25% due to multinational financial transactions.

Given this high spending,the government should be well able to maintain front line services. But given the news reports of withdrawal of services from very vulnerable elderly people and disabled children,and in view of the hundreds of millions budget deficit in the HSE budget,what chance is there of avoiding major service breakdowns?
Couple of things

1. 3 years ago is not now, at the time the economy was contracting rapidly, the health spend has contracted since.

2. Health inflation has led to 32% per annum increase in private insurance rates, while public health spend has been cut by 2.5 billion.
 

dunno

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If that is the current figure, or the current figure is any way close, Irish healthcare is notably inefficient, but that is one of the obvious things.
 

nakatomi

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If that is the current figure, or the current figure is any way close, Irish healthcare is notably inefficient, but that is one of the obvious things.
Not the current figure, 3 years old.
Report is a year old.
 

patslatt

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Couple of things

1. 3 years ago is not now, at the time the economy was contracting rapidly, the health spend has contracted since.

2. Health inflation has led to 32% per annum increase in private insurance rates, while public health spend has been cut by 2.5 billion.
So why is there still a deficit of hundreds of millions that must be closed ASAP?
 

nakatomi

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So why is there still a deficit of hundreds of millions that must be closed ASAP?
The deficit is because there has been a budget cut , of 2.5 billion, and medical inflation runs over 16%.
Staff have been cut , pay has been cut.
care has been cut , waiting times increased.
You now could wait 4 years to see a consultant and another 4 years ( 8 in total) for a hip replacement.
 
D

Dylan2010

See Ireland’s health spending among highest in OECD · TheJournal.ie

This 11.4% figure is high by international standards. So hypochondriac public sector advocates shouldn't disingenuously quote the lower percentage of spending to GDP without mentioning that Irish GDP uniquely is overstated by about 20 to 25% due to multinational financial transactions.

Given this high spending,the government should be well able to maintain front line services. But given the news reports of withdrawal of services from very vulnerable elderly people and disabled children,and in view of the hundreds of millions budget deficit in the HSE budget,what chance is there of avoiding major service breakdowns?
please please get your terms right. GDP is not national income and Ireland's GDP is overstated compared to other countries, the Irish economy doesnt own the transfer pricing etc that bumps up GDP and "as a % of GDP" tends to be used by spivs that want higher spending for their particular lobby.
 

Samell

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The spend may seem high but link it with the top heavy admin, consultants double jobbing, malpractice suits and general wastage there is little left to fund front line services.

If rationalised the money paid into the HSE would provide us all a much better service and we would not have our weekly Sindo/SBP 'HSE ate my hamster' exclusives.
 

nakatomi

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The spend may seem high but link it with the top heavy admin, consultants double jobbing, malpractice suits and general wastage there is little left to fund front line services.

If rationalised the money paid into the HSE would provide us all a much better service and we would not have our weekly Sindo/SBP 'HSE ate my hamster' exclusives.
Could you explain this further?
 

patslatt

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The deficit is because there has been a budget cut , of 2.5 billion, and medical inflation runs over 16%.
Staff have been cut , pay has been cut.
care has been cut , waiting times increased.
You now could wait 4 years to see a consultant and another 4 years ( 8 in total) for a hip replacement.
Has the number of orthopedic consultants decreased? I've read that waiting 6 months for a hip replacement to a broken hip has a very high risk of death. True?
 

patslatt

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please please get your terms right. GDP is not national income and Ireland's GDP is overstated compared to other countries, the Irish economy doesnt own the transfer pricing etc that bumps up GDP and "as a % of GDP" tends to be used by spivs that want higher spending for their particular lobby.
That's what I said, we are agreed. Most countries GDP and GNP numbers are almost equal,except for Ireland where multinational transfer pricing for low corporate taxes makes the economy look bigger than it is.
 

niall78

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Was in a big maternity hospital last few days with a family member. Front line staff were massively overworked. On top of dealing with their main jobs they had bullsh1t to deal with like not enough pillows and blankets for the women and not enough cots for the new babies. I asked a nurse friend of mine if this was a common problem, she told me she once had to wrap a patient in a curtain that divides beds due to lack of blankets.

I don't know where all the money goes but a lot of the time it ain't going to front line areas that are useful to the public.
 

patslatt

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Was in a big maternity hospital last few days with a family member. Front line staff were massively overworked. On top of dealing with their main jobs they had bullsh1t to deal with like not enough pillows and blankets for the women and not enough cots for the new babies. I asked a nurse friend of mine if this was a common problem, she told me she once had to wrap a patient in a curtain that divides beds due to lack of blankets.

I don't know where all the money goes but a lot of the time it ain't going to front line areas that are useful to the public.
A few years ago,Ireland had the most nurses per 100,000 population in the OECD bar Norway. Where are they? In sinecures? Shuffling paper files in pen and ink admin systems with little or no IT? No disrespect to the overworked front line nurses.
 

nakatomi

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A few years ago,Ireland had the most nurses per 100,000 population in the OECD bar Norway. Where are they? In sinecures? Shuffling paper files in pen and ink admin systems with little or no IT? No disrespect to the overworked front line nurses.
Many of them are overseas or raising children, HSE employs about half, but many are part time.
 

nakatomi

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Has the number of orthopedic consultants decreased? I've read that waiting 6 months for a hip replacement to a broken hip has a very high risk of death. True?
The demand has vastly increased, many have left to go full time private.
 

firefly123

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A few years ago,Ireland had the most nurses per 100,000 population in the OECD bar Norway. Where are they? In sinecures? Shuffling paper files in pen and ink admin systems with little or no IT? No disrespect to the overworked front line nurses.
And BOOM! there it is...

Pat made a similar statement on this thread a few days ago..Post 237. ...http://www.politics.ie/forum/health-social-affairs/198679-consultants-who-do-they-think-they-24.html
AMPLE SPENDING ON HEALTH CARE-PRODUCTIVITY POOR
From memory,spending on Irish health care is 9% of national income (GNI or GNP but not inflated GDP number),about €11 billion, about €2,634 per capita,€220 a month.

Productivity is poor because of lack of IT systems and too many hospitals and not enough PCTs in the comfy unionised workers coops that is health care. Ireland has the most nurses per 100,000 people bar Norway. What are they all doing,chasing paper files or working in sinecures? No disrespect to the hard working front line nurses. Bureaucracy has mushroomed with the creation of the HSE as layers of management need to recruit more bureaucrats to communicate up and down the chain of command,something the accountant types overlooked in their hope for synergies and economies of scale in the merger of health boards.
Nakatomi replies and corrects him at post 240.....
Ireland may have a large number of trained nurses , however not all are working, many are married housewives who keep their registration up.

If you take the number of nurses according to the figures (14.8 per 1000) there should be 67k nurses. Yet the HSE only employs 37k nurses, many of whom are part time.
I reply post 250...
You're wasting your breath Nakatomi. This figure has become imbedded in his brain and something as inconvenient as facts will not prevent him from repeating it over and over again.

And Pat, fair play to you, you didn't let me down. I swear I think you might be a turing test put in place by the P.ie staff as a laugh.
 

davoid

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If that is the current figure, or the current figure is any way close, Irish healthcare is notably inefficient, but that is one of the obvious things.
Well hardly surprising given that the priorities of those who work in it take precedence over the needs of patients.
 
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