Irish homes not safe as our army protects people in Africa.



Sync

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Totally. Once the fighting stops, all UN troops should just take the feuding parties at their word that they won't start up again. The honour system has worked just super in Africa so far.

The Irish Army's doing a great job at what they've been trained to do. The army are not going to be a part of day to day policing, especially with the history on this island.
 

myksav

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The military exist to provide back up for the civil power.

When the civil power are a] unable b] unwilling or c] incapable of ensuring the safety of the citizens of a state then it is the duty of the military power to intervene.

The Irish military,s mision in Chad is subservient to the security of the Irish state.
When crime levels in the Irish state exceed those in Chad it is time to bring the military home.
That could be called military insurrection. The military cannot decide to intervene anywhere, they can only do something if ordered by the Oireachtas. It is NOT the duty of the military to intervene on their own. Actually, it would be contrary to the Regulations they operate under.

Given you last paragraph, that internal military intervention you want will never happen anyway.
 

The OD

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I fully agree with the OP - armoured personnel carriers, RPG's, Steyr's and Beretta's for the over 65's NOW!

:roll:

Feck dem darkies in Chad sure most a' dem is probley prodesdant enywey....

:-x
 

The Field Marshal

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That could be called military insurrection. The military cannot decide to intervene anywhere, they can only do something if ordered by the Oireachtas. It is NOT the duty of the military to intervene on their own. Actually, it would be contrary to the Regulations they operate under.

Given you last paragraph, that internal military intervention you want will never happen anyway.
I have not said that I want military intervention at this point in time.

Nevertheless difficult times call for difficult decisions.

Should the civil authorities in Eire continue to fail to ensure basic law and order is respected
then the military authorities would have no option but to intervene.
 

myksav

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I have not said that I want military intervention at this point in time.

Nevertheless difficult times call for difficult decisions.

Should the civil authorities in Eire continue to fail to ensure basic law and order is respected
then the military authorities would have no option but to intervene.
The military authorities are the Government. For the military to intervene, the Gov't has to order them to do so. Anything else would be a major military offence, with a possibility of executions for the participants. Unless of course you want a military dictatorship.
 
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we need more Gardai but even that would not stop horrors like this. I don't know why there is such savagery going on, but it does and what can be done is not being done, the criminals are let out on bail, they are released early from prison, they are given suspended sentences, and of course although the Gardai may know well who did a crime there is not always proof, and the morale within the Gardai is at an all time low.

If we bring the army out on to the streets what could they do? We would have to declare Martial Law and that is daft. We would be saying the Gardai have failed us. We would excite the para-military nutters who would love this type of situation.

When this Government came into power in I think 1997, they promised Zero Tolerance. We even had O'Donoghue whilst in opposition, walking around Dáil Eireann plastered with make-up because he was doing so many interviews on his "tough stance" and the Mayor of New York was his mentor on his "Zero Tolerance" stand. What happened? Everything got worse. Apart from getting money back from drug dealers, the vicious thugs were let run riot.

More Gardai, WALKING the streets, patrolling estates on a regular basis. Alarms for older people who live alone that will be answered immediately. Not silent alarms. Loud ones. The cowardly scum will run at that. Less emphasis on the drug scene, more on violence and anti-social behaviour and punishment for parents, including jail time, if they let their kids break the law.
 

The Field Marshal

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The military authorities are the Government. For the military to intervene, the Gov't has to order them to do so. Anything else would be a major military offence, with a possibility of executions for the participants. Unless of course you want a military dictatorship.
The military authorities are not the government.

The military are subject to legitimate orders from the civil authority ie the govt of the day.

It is common practice when civil society fails to function effectively in the area of law and order for the military to intervene particularly when anarchy threatens.

Regrettably military dictatorships are necessary from time to time,particularly in countries where the rule of law has disappeared.
 

NewGoldDream

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We have been sending troops overseas for generations now. For much of that time, there was a civil war on our doorsteps, bombs were set off to massive loss of life in our capital, civilians, judges, ambassadors were blown apart, people were gunned down in border areas and indeed in smaller numbers throughout the country, members of the Gardai Siochana were killed by terrorists, people were kidnapped and executed within the 26 counties. And this happened while we had troops in the Congo, the Lebanon, Cyprus and Iran/Iraq to help people in those areas.

And now we finally establish some semblance of an end to the war on this island, now the Peace Process seems to be growing year on year, now the terrorists have put away their arms and the sight of mothers burying sons every week has become a memory...NOW someone suggests bringing home the military because things were never so bad, and cites an anecdote about a robbery as proof!

You'd kinda have to laugh. donalmc said it right. This place is brilliant!
 

The Field Marshal

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We have been sending troops overseas for generations now. For much of that time, there was a civil war on our doorsteps, bombs were set off to massive loss of life in our capital, civilians, judges, ambassadors were blown apart, people were gunned down in border areas and indeed in smaller numbers throughout the country, members of the Gardai Siochana were killed by terrorists, people were kidnapped and executed within the 26 counties. And this happened while we had troops in the Congo, the Lebanon, Cyprus and Iran/Iraq to help people in those areas.

And now we finally establish some semblance of an end to the war on this island, now the Peace Process seems to be growing year on year, now the terrorists have put away their arms and the sight of mothers burying sons every week has become a memory...NOW someone suggests bringing home the military because things were never so bad, and cites an anecdote about a robbery as proof!

You'd kinda have to laugh. donalmc said it right. This place is brilliant!


Well you know its not an anecdote about a robbery its a true story about a vicious attack on a defenceless old woman by 3 scumbags in the middle of the night who dragged her out and tied her to a post.It seems you dont think this is particularly bad.

There have been hundreds,if not thousands of vicious attacks, on the elderly, particularly those living alone but thats also probably ok with you too.

The Gardai are not foot patrolling anymore so know very little of whats really going on.

The murder rate has increased and random violence is common on the streets.

The government are holding back on promotions within the Gardai to save money and yet will happily spend it protecting people on another continent.

I expect you must be very contented as you sit in your armchair and approve wasteful Irish government expenditure,in times of dire economic distress, in every country but your own.
 
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marmurr1916

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The military authorities are not the government.

The military are subject to legitimate orders from the civil authority ie the govt of the day.

It is common practice when civil society fails to function effectively in the area of law and order for the military to intervene particularly when anarchy threatens.

Regrettably military dictatorships are necessary from time to time,particularly in countries where the rule of law has disappeared.
Now we get down to the real agenda. :rolleyes:

There are approximately 8,500 men and women in the Irish Army.

There are 411 Irish Defence Forces personnel in Chad, with another 301 personnel on various UN duties around the world, a total of 712 or just under 8.4%.

That leaves a total of about 7,788 troops available to aid the civil power in Ireland if necessary, not counting members of the Reserve Defence Forces.
 

The Field Marshal

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Now we get down to the real agenda. :rolleyes:

There are approximately 8,500 men and women in the Irish Army.

There are 411 Irish Defence Forces personnel in Chad, with another 301 personnel on various UN duties around the world, a total of 712 or just under 8.4%.

That leaves a total of about 7,788 troops available to aid the civil power in Ireland if necessary, not counting members of the Reserve Defence Forces.
Instead of posting mere statistical information please try make a point of some kind.
 

MMR

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The purpose of my post was to highlight the breakdown in law and order in Ireland.
Quite clearly the state is beginning to fail in its primary duty which is to ensure that citizens feel safe in their own homes.

My reference to the Irish army was intended to
a] highlight the lack of priorities in government expenditure and
b] voice support for McCarthy report to stop wasting taxpayers money on dubious foreign adventures
Maybe you should try to do a little reading to see how dubious the Chad mission actually is....or is not. The Irish Army are among the most admired of all the international armies that take part in mulilateral missions.
 

marmurr1916

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The Field Marshal

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Maybe you should try to do a little reading to see how dubious the Chad mission actually is....or is not. The Irish Army are among the most admired of all the international armies that take part in mulilateral missions.
I regard Irish armed interventions in Africa as futile .

I had relatives and friends who
worked and died in the Irish army in the Congo.

What was their sacrifice for?

Nothing.

The Congo is now worse than it was in the 1960,s.

Fortunately there have been no body bags back yet from Chad.
Maybe its just a matter of time.
One way or another the Chad effort will drift in and out of the chaos that is the African nightmare.

In the meantime the nightmare of the elderly ,insecure in their Irish homes,
continues as the drift in government spending priorities continues.

Of course African lives must have a higher priority than Irish lives in the new multicultural order of values.
 
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The Field Marshal

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The point is implied by the facts.

You have just posted lists of military facts & percentages.

These on their own have little meaning.

What little meaning they have render whatever point your trying to make even more obscure than it already is.

You fail to understand my central point which has nothing to do with military percentages and everything to do with government priorities and the judicious use of scarce resources.
 

NewGoldDream

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It seems you dont think this is particularly bad.

There have been hundreds,if not thousands of vicious attacks, on the elderly, particularly those living alone but thats also probably ok with you too.
...

I expect you must be very contented as you sit in your armchair and approve wasteful Irish government expenditure,in times of dire economic distress, in every country but your own.
Yes, I love violence. I sit in my armchair and laugh. Fair play to you for understanding my post, and indeed me, so well. Between myself and yourself, don't you just hate it when posters get all sneery and personal instead of dealing with the points? I mean, you just have to laugh at the posters who think they know someone from a post or 2 on the internet.
 

myksav

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The military authorities are not the government.

The military are subject to legitimate orders from the civil authority ie the govt of the day.

It is common practice when civil society fails to function effectively in the area of law and order for the military to intervene particularly when anarchy threatens.

Regrettably military dictatorships are necessary from time to time,particularly in countries where the rule of law has disappeared.
:shock: :eek:

Contradictary much?

Insurrection is common practice??

I guess you never served.
 

myksav

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Quote:
Originally Posted by marmurr1916
Now we get down to the real agenda.

There are approximately 8,500 men and women in the Irish Army.

There are 411 Irish Defence Forces personnel in Chad, with another 301 personnel on various UN duties around the world, a total of 712 or just under 8.4%.

That leaves a total of about 7,788 troops available to aid the civil power in Ireland if necessary, not counting members of the Reserve Defence Forces.

Instead of posting mere statistical information please try make a point of some kind.
Gardaí Síochana numbers: 14,500 all ranks. 14,000 sargeants and gardaí.
More Gardaí than soldiers but I guess the soldiers would have guns and can shoot people they think are doing something illegal.
 

Bobert

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Quote:
Originally Posted by marmurr1916
Now we get down to the real agenda.

There are approximately 8,500 men and women in the Irish Army.

There are 411 Irish Defence Forces personnel in Chad, with another 301 personnel on various UN duties around the world, a total of 712 or just under 8.4%.

That leaves a total of about 7,788 troops available to aid the civil power in Ireland if necessary, not counting members of the Reserve Defence Forces.



Gardaí Síochana numbers: 14,500 all ranks. 14,000 sargeants and gardaí.
More Gardaí than soldiers but I guess the soldiers would have guns and can shoot people they think are doing something illegal.
Ahem, what about the rules governing that?
 


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