Irish homes not safe as our army protects people in Africa.

The Field Marshal

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
43,645
Ahem, what about the rules governing that?
Usually confined to looters who may be shot on sight.
A soldier may also fire if he thinks his own or his comrades life is being endangered by the actions of an out of control civilian or group of civilians.

Another advantage of state control by the military is that there is no appeal from the verdicts of military courts who ,by the way, are entitled to apply the death penalty
for a variety of offences, including the possession of a firearm.
 


myksav

Well-known member
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
23,381
Ahem, what about the rules governing that?
AFAIK, the regs don't allow it, and, outside the MP's, few military get grounding in identifying and responding to what is or isn't legal or illegal actions.
I never saw being allowed to shoot civilians acting illegally in the posted Standing Orders or Regulations. Somewhat disappointing for some. :)
 

The Field Marshal

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
43,645
I am resurrecting this thread with a different slant.

The criticisms directed at Minister Gormley on Kennys frontline last monday 30/12/09 are relevant to the inaction by thousands of available Irish soldiers who were willing to aid distressed flood victims in the vast Shannon floodplains.

Only a small number of soldiers were detailed to help out.

In the meantime thousands of untrained and uncordinated civilian volunteers had to make do as best they could.

The governments response to this disaster does not inspire confidence since there is clearly a rift between Fianna Fail and the Green Party on how best to handle matters.

FF have been doing most of the running with Gormley lagging behind gasping, tongue hanging out, and peddling his bicycle furiously as he tries to avoid the rising waters that threaten to engulf his dainty middle class supporters already targeted for destruction by that nasty incinerator.
 

staunch ff

Active member
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Messages
146
The answer to these horrific crimes is to take the criminals off the streets. This means multiplying the number of prison places and that raises the question as to whether we are prepared to multiply the tax we pay
 

Sync

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
28,594
I am resurrecting this thread with a different slant.

The criticisms directed at Minister Gormley on Kennys frontline last monday 30/12/09 are relevant to the inaction by thousands of available Irish soldiers who were willing to aid distressed flood victims in the vast Shannon floodplains.

Only a small number of soldiers were detailed to help out.

In the meantime thousands of untrained and uncordinated civilian volunteers had to make do as best they could.

The governments response to this disaster does not inspire confidence since there is clearly a rift between Fianna Fail and the Green Party on how best to handle matters.

FF have been doing most of the running with Gormley lagging behind gasping, tongue hanging out, and peddling his bicycle furiously as he tries to avoid the rising waters that threaten to engulf his dainty middle class supporters already targeted for destruction by that nasty incinerator.
We're missing the Katrinaesque smoking gun like a report issued to the government warning them of huge flood risks in the south, but the lack of a comprehensive DRP for flooding in an island nation is staggering in it's stupidity.

The defence forces should absolutly be involved in the clean up and protection of civilians in this situation, and it should be something they train for, and something they're fully aware of how to handle. It's just baffling, you'd never get away with it in any proper business.
 

The Field Marshal

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
43,645
We're missing the Katrinaesque smoking gun like a report issued to the government warning them of huge flood risks in the south, but the lack of a comprehensive DRP for flooding in an island nation is staggering in it's stupidity.

The defence forces should absolutly be involved in the clean up and protection of civilians in this situation, and it should be something they train for, and something they're fully aware of how to handle. It's just baffling, you'd never get away with it in any proper business.
The gun is there.

There were reports warning of the consequences due to silting of the Shannon and its tributaries.

Efforts to implement the recommendations have been stymied by the Green agenda of placing environmental protection above the essential needs of humans when it comes to constructing flood defences.

Dredging of rivers was resiled on in the interests of protecting natural habitats.

The humans in these natural habitats are deemed expendable by the Green party.

Gormleys shamefaced behaviour during the recent floods is due to his guilt in the matter.
 

The Field Marshal

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
43,645
Again I resurrect this thread with the slightly different slant that, whilst our army are busy helping people in Africa, for the past 3 weeks little or no official army help untill today has been given wrt iced up 2ndary rds and dangerous footpaths.

Thousands of vulnerable people again have been left helpless while ministers twiddle their thumbs.

Willie O,Dea had the gall to say the army did not help because they were not asked.

If the country was attacked O,Dea would hang around waiting for his "orders".

Has anybody in this government got any initiative at all?

It bodes poorly for this state so bereft of courageous leadership.
 

myksav

Well-known member
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
23,381
Again I resurrect this thread with the slightly different slant that, whilst our army are busy helping people in Africa, for the past 3 weeks little or no official army help untill today has been given wrt iced up 2ndary rds and dangerous footpaths.

Thousands of vulnerable people again have been left helpless while ministers twiddle their thumbs.

Willie O,Dea had the gall to say the army did not help because they were not asked.

If the country was attacked O,Dea would hang around waiting for his "orders".

Has anybody in this government got any initiative at all?

It bodes poorly for this state so bereft of courageous leadership.
Young Willie is actually correct in what he said. :shock:
The Military are legally precluded from offering 'civilian' assistance, it has to be requested by civil authorities. It to eliminate any legal attempt by the military to assume power here.

Likewise in the case of an attack on the State.
 

dresden8

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
14,598
The purpose of my post was to highlight the breakdown in law and order in Ireland.
Quite clearly the state is beginning to fail in its primary duty which is to ensure that citizens feel safe in their own homes.

My reference to the Irish army was intended to
a] highlight the lack of priorities in government expenditure and
b] voice support for McCarthy report to stop wasting taxpayers money on dubious foreign adventures
Why blame the army then?

Generally they do a very good job with severe equipment shortages and have a good international reputation in spite of that.

You may want to highlight an issue but you're picking on the wrong scapegoats to "kickstart" your "discussion".
 

Old Mr Grouser

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Messages
6,341
AFAIK, the regs don't allow it, and, outside the MP's, few military get grounding in identifying and responding to what is or isn't legal or illegal actions.
Couldn't one of of the infantry battalions be 'taken out of the line' and re-formed as a Military Police battalion.

It could still retain a 'Light Infantry capability' as its secondary role.
 

bormotello

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
12,294
Couldn't one of of the infantry battalions be 'taken out of the line' and re-formed as a Military Police battalion.

It could still retain a 'Light Infantry capability' as its secondary role.
Not as easy as it sounds. More lightly it will be bad police and bad infantry.
As one solution is equip each patrol car by professional gardai, to make all decisions and two soldiers to help him
 

Old Mr Grouser

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Messages
6,341
Not as easy as it sounds. More likelyy it will be bad police and bad infantry. ....
In a small town at 2am on a Sunday morning, with a hundred or so drunken hooligans on the rampage a platoon of Military Police would be very welcome.
 

greenporcupine

Active member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Messages
114
When the storm came last year in France the military were immediately sent in without delay.
They helped in every way ,the pompiers with the police and military worked together ,but then France while not being perfect is not a total shambles .While being able to absorb many cultures,there is a sense of being in France,and that they like their country ,but the Irish in the big towns seem to have a need to immolate themselves before all and everyone,and to simply blame the government is too simple.
It is the 'guilt complex that must go .Stand up to those who put the Irish last always and say they care about all the world .They care about noone ,noone at all.
I'd say it is 'terminal' the Irish condition of self immolation,and it must stop. No more guilt
say what you really think,not what they want you to say.
The floods are a metaphor for recent Irelands terror of offending the P.C. brigade.
You have broken down your own defences,and the right to protect yourself against those who do not respect you .
The Irish must fight for themselves .When you are 'dying 'of an illness ,and Ireland is ,then you have to be selfish totally ,in order to survive.
There are people on this sight who want to distract from what is best for Ireland ,but being
pro Ireland ,as opposed to pro the world is essential for a few years ,or there will be no Ireland at all.
 

Old Mr Grouser

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Messages
6,341
As one solution is equip each patrol car by professional gardai, to make all decisions and two soldiers to help him
Sorry, Bormo, that doesn't work.

What I'm suggesting is a US Army style of Military Police battalion that would make its appearances 'in aid of the Civil Power' by company and platoon.
 

Voice of Reason

New member
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
1
Couldn't one of of the infantry battalions be 'taken out of the line' and re-formed as a Military Police battalion.

It could still retain a 'Light Infantry capability' as its secondary role.
While I approve of the idea, it is not necessarily that easy.

It takes 16 weeks to give basic skills to MP Nco's and further mentoring to make them proficient, not every soldier has the necessary skills to be one either.

There is also the issue of the rank ratios (so many Nco's in relation to the number of Pte's).

Politically, it may not be desirable as it could the impression of a militarised state to outside observers (tourists) which may impact on the economy (their perception, not mine!).
 

The Field Marshal

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
43,645
Why blame the army then?

Generally they do a very good job with severe equipment shortages and have a good international reputation in spite of that.

You may want to highlight an issue but you're picking on the wrong scapegoats to "kickstart" your "discussion".
I have not blamed the army for anything.Nor am I scapegoating them.

Perhaps English is not your first language as you totally misconstrue and misunderstand my postings on these issues.
 

The Field Marshal

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
43,645
Young Willie is actually correct in what he said. :shock:
The Military are legally precluded from offering 'civilian' assistance, it has to be requested by civil authorities. It to eliminate any legal attempt by the military to assume power here.

Likewise in the case of an attack on the State.
Do you think I dont know that?

The point is a political one.

O,Dea is claiming no Govt Minister or Local Authority asked him to assist.
He may be right which indicates large scale indifference on the parts of these bodies.
He may also be trying to finger them for blame.

This indicates serious rifts and divisions within government itself.
The lack of a cohesive political response displays serious drift at the helm.

O,Dea ,as Min for Defence in stating "We were,nt asked to help" reveals serious weaknesses in Government and should not have made that politically naive statement at that time.
 

NewGoldDream

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2004
Messages
20,559
Website
-
Is there any crisis that cannot be met with this thread being resurrected and a call of 'send in the army'? This army must be a real crack outfit, it seems they can address any crisis.
 

The Field Marshal

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
43,645
Of course now with the Irish navy ferrying would be Islamic jihadists into Italy and an Garda Siochana due to strike Irish people continue to have confidence that their govt has the interests of the Irish people to the forefront.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top