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Irish illegal immigrant deported from USA campaigns to be able to return and Government lobbying


Dr Pat

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More apparent 'tugging at the heart strings' campaigning, this time from an Irish immigrant to the US who had a child by an 'American lady' (to quote the report in today's Irish Independent - it is not clear if she was a US citizen) but who was deported from the US in 2011 for flouting its immigration laws.

Apparently this gentleman who, according to the report, has since emigrated to Australia, is lobbying to win the right to return to the US and he says his dream is that he can live and work there to be near his son (although, he is no longer with the mother). He was presumably one of the thousands of Irish who were/are 'undocumented' in the US but whom our Government are now lobbying the US government to allow stay. Unfortunately for him, according to the report he ran foul of the US immigration law and he was caught. He claims he was denied a visa by the US embassy in Dublin in 2011 to see his son and has since only seen his son in person three times since his deportation when the mother brought the child to Ireland.

While one can naturally sympathise with this man's predicament on a personal level and, more importantly, with the child, if the report is correct, it appears he knew very well what he was doing as he first went there on a holiday visa in 2005 and then he moved to the US 'permanently' a year and a half later. How could he move there permanently without the appropriate documentation? While one can naturally sympathise with this man's predicament on a personal level and, more importantly, with the child, if the report is correct, it appears he knew very well what he was doing as he first went there on a holiday visa in 2005 and then he moved to the US 'permanently' a year and a half later. How could he move there permanently without the appropriate documentation?

As a general rule, I have little sympathy for those who knowingly go to the US or any other country, overstay their visas and/or work illegally, choosing deliberately in the process to flout the laws of the country. They should be made to account for their actions. In such circumstances, it seems a bit much to be complaining about the consequences of their own actions. They should think of the consequences of ignoring the laws of the host country before they embark on such a perilous course. Why our Government lobbies for those who knowingly flout the law defies logic as it undermines the credibility of not only the host countries' immigration controls but also our own, ineffective though though they are.

The report in today's Irish Independent can be accessed here: I belong with my son, pleads deported dad - Independent.ie
 


O'Sullivan Bere

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. . . As a general rule, I have little sympathy for those who knowingly go to the US or any other country, overstay their visas and/or work illegally, choosing deliberately in the process to flout the laws of the country. They should be made to account for their actions. In such circumstances, it seems a bit much to be complaining about the consequences of their own actions. They should think of the consequences of ignoring the laws of the host country before they embark on such a perilous course. Why our Government lobbies for those who knowingly flout the law defies logic as it undermines the credibility of not only the host countries' immigration controls but also our own, ineffective though though they are.
IMO I favour the US doing a much better job at courting desirous legal immigration (including far more legal avenues for quality Irish immigrants) and straightening out its situation with illegal immigration. That includes IMO grandfathering productive (no criminals and spongers) and sufficiently vested illegal immigrants with a pathway to legalisation and citizenship along with strict enforcement and penalty process going forward. That's what is being discussed as we speak in the US. I do agree with Ferguson that the Irish government hasn't been a sufficiently active and effective advocate in that regard for Irish citizens.

That said, other than missing his son which is personally sympathetic but a situation he created himself, I agree with your assessment. Quite frankly, he exhibits the kind of arrogant undue sense of entitlement that, thanks to undue accommodation, has made a joke out of immigration 'rules' in Europe as a place for people to scheme entry (including baby anchoring which is his ploy) and even squat on the dole and/or commit crimes, preach extremism, etc, without fear of removal.

Take his remarks here:

. . .

“Everybody who goes through deportation feels so degraded and dehumanised by the whole ordeal,” he adds.

. . .

“In 2011, I went to the US Embassy in Dublin and applied for a visa to go back to see my child as my democratic human right. I was categorically denied,” Paul recalls. . . .
"Let me see my son... I miss him every day' | Irish Daily Star

On the first remark, so what? He was supposed to be deported. Quite frankly, what's 'degrading' is for a nation's tax payers to expend money, time and other resources to catch and deport illegal immigrants. Was he filing and paying income tax whilst illegally working in the US? I doubt it, and that's another insult. Cutting a citizen or lawful immigrant out of work and/or contributing to lower wages for them? Surely so, and that's another insult to a nation's people when trespassing and squatting--which is essentially what that is--wherever that is. As a person with first hand knowledge of the US immigration experience, it's also not fair to those who immigrate lawfully, pay taxes, etc. And I've followed the same rules when I've travelled elsewhere, knowing full well that it's a *privilege* and not a right for me to enter, work and/or reside in another nation of which I'm not a citizen, and it's rightfully expected of me that I do so only by their rules and on their terms of their invitation.

On the second comment by him above, he has absolutely no 'democratic human right' to demand entry into the US, especially after being deported for violating his terms of prior admission. It's a privilege only, and one properly denied given his conduct. And he also "doth protest too much". He doesn't say why he was deported, and that often happens in the US because he got caught with some offence. Assuming for the sake of the argument that he was deported only for overstay, he's only subject to a 10 year ban for immigrant visas. And for a non-immigrant visa, he can get a waiver easier for good cause shown. Quite frankly, him demanding the US embassy for another visa with that line of approach just begged for a denial not only because it once again shows he's a high risk for violating the visa again but also because he's a cheeky beggar about the whole thing. He exhibits absolutely no remorse or respect accompanied with a demand upon the US to admit him again as if he has an entitlement to entry. He got what he deserved, a denial.
 
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tigerben

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I had a roll my eyes moment reading this earlier, sure let every illegal immigrant , wine , dine and bed and hopeful inpregnate a woman in their choosen country. Then let them stay because of a child. Now what country did this happen in before :)
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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I had a roll my eyes moment reading this earlier, sure let every illegal immigrant , wine , dine and bed and hopeful inpregnate a woman in their choosen country. Then let them stay because of a child. Now what country did this happen in before :)
Indeed. One wonders...;) And it's still quite easy to pull that off anyway by anchoring a baby with a citizen or one entitled to be so. A load of this is thanks to the European Convention on Human Rights and Strasbourg rulings that are so absurd they've made Europe an open door for even the worst types of illegal, dangerous, criminal and/or sponging immigrants.

Just take a peek at the UK for example, e.g.,

Criminals can stay in UK to avoid 'shame:' Malaysian criminal avoids deportation after claiming it breaches her human rights | Mail Online
BBC News - Abu Qatada: Government loses deportation appeal
Jobless Somali woman wins right to Harrow council house (From Harrow Times)
Muslim extremist Abu Qatada to receive £8,000 incapacity benefits a year - for his bad back | Mail Online
Lying Nigerian Asylum Seeker - YouTube

It's insane that people like these aren't removed from Ireland ASAP for being illegal and/or breaking criminal laws and/or that they're allowed to enter and flop on the dole, etc:

IRELANDS immigrant fraudsters 2
 

friendlyfire

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Since the year dot...Irish and every other nationality have emigrated to the States some legally most illegally it is a fact, and in your OP you are very naive "how can he move there permanently without the appropriate documentation"

They go on a 90 day visa weaver and then over stay it is as simple as that.When the U.S was doing well it was the illegal workers who propped up the system.The Irish worked in all types of construction,Bar work,as nannies etc.

The Irish have a good reputation in the States and in my 6 years I earned and contributed by spending my wages on rent,holidays and I will admit a great social life.Get this legislation passed it is the right thing to do for all these people instead of living in the shadows.
 

Carl Claudius

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I hope the Irish government will do the same for the undocumented Nigerians and Chinese in this country.
 

ItsEvolution

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The Irish sicken me on this, they are illegal they shouldn't be there and if they are found they should get the boot.
 

Carl Claudius

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The Irish have a good reputation in the States and in my 6 years I earned and contributed by spending my wages on rent,holidays and I will admit a great social life.Get this legislation passed it is the right thing to do for all these people instead of living in the shadows.[/QUOTE]

the Irish have a good reputation in the states cos they have the 'right' skin colour and we believe they should get preferential treatment ahead of other foreigners such Mexicans and Chinese.
 

Analyzer

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This is classic Irish arrogance with respect to the rules of other countries.

Some Irish people break the rules, or refuse to respect the law, whilst most locals try to abide by them. And then when they are punished for their behaviour, they go running to the parish pump politicians looking for a "digout".

Even worse, the idiots in the political parties respond sympathetically to such behaviour. It is just not the done thing in this country, for either the media, or the state to tell Paddy that he might want to learn about how to be an adult, and make adult decisions. No, instead, he gets sympathy and support, when he should be getting a shoe up the arse.

The man at the centre of this should be told to grow up.
 
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Analyzer

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the Irish have a good reputation in the states cos they have the 'right' skin colour and we believe they should get preferential treatment ahead of other foreigners such Mexicans and Chinese.
Actually, Chinese in the US have a good reputation based on hard work, and obeying the law. And unlike the Irish they are quiet, and don't wake everybody up at 3 in the morning, in a silly ugly drunken stupor.

Modern Ireland has a system of social mores that manages to leave out telling young people of the concept of "behaviour breeds results".
 
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Carl Claudius

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This is classic Irish arrogance with respect to the rules of other countries.

They break the rules, or refuse to respect the law. And then when they are punished for their behaviour, they go running to the parish pump politicians looking for a "digout".

The man at the centre of this should be told to grow up.
it works fine here
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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Since the year dot...Irish and every other nationality have emigrated to the States some legally most illegally it is a fact, and in your OP you are very naive "how can he move there permanently without the appropriate documentation"

They go on a 90 day visa weaver and then over stay it is as simple as that.When the U.S was doing well it was the illegal workers who propped up the system.The Irish worked in all types of construction,Bar work,as nannies etc.

The Irish have a good reputation in the States and in my 6 years I earned and contributed by spending my wages on rent,holidays and I will admit a great social life.Get this legislation passed it is the right thing to do for all these people instead of living in the shadows.
Some of that I'd agree. IMO the US should revise its immigration system to better permit legal immigration for areas it needs them, e.g., agricultural workers, or would find desirous, e.g., highly skilled and competent people. It should also speed up visa processes for such people. It should also grandfather well vested and productive illegals who have contributed and lived otherwise lawfully as a practical matter along with better enforcement going forward with a better pathway for legal immigration.

However, many of the illegal Irish at issue have indeed been long vested in the US, some even grandparents by now. Since the 90s, it's become increasingly hard for illegal Irish to work and reside, and far less now do so. I don't see that many coming illegally these days as once was the case given greater obstacles to successful illegal immigration for the kinds of work Irish usually seek, e.g., not agricultural related jobs. It's one reason the US should IMO open its doors back up to legal immigration for desirous immigrants because such people now go to Australia and Canada, etc.

Irish immigrants who take jobs in construction, bartending, etc, do not IMO 'prop up the system'. Rather, they take jobs that US citizens and other lawful residents seek as well as help drive wages down for them as workers and/or contractors due to illegally low overhead costs by illegal hirers hiring illegals on the illegal cheap. What's often difficult to fill for jobs are agricultural jobs such a crop harvesting, and that's what many other immigrant groups know how to do and excel, e.g., Mexicans. Many of them don't even want to permanently reside in the US, just come legally to pick crops during harvest time and head back due to weather and harvesting in Mexico and elsewhere.

Illegals who work 'under the table' don't provide sufficient contribution because, although they spend money and pay certain things like sales taxes, they avoid paying income taxes if and when owed. Legal workers do the same thing plus pay any due income tax. In fact, I'm sure most would like to have more disposable income if not obliged to pay income tax, so it's a windfall for illegals not paying income taxes when owed. The ones who create a windfall the other direction are those who pay income taxes under false IDs and Social Security numbers in jobs that pay such taxes out of wages. Obviously they cannot collect any tax refunds, and that operates as a windfall the opposite direction. That's not the usual case for most Irish illegal immigrants, though...they usually work 'under the table'.
 
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Carl Claudius

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Actually, Chinese in the US have a good reputation based on hard work, and obeying the law. And unlike the Irish they are quiet, and don't com home loudly at 4 in the morning.

Modern Ireland has a system of social mores that manages to leave out telling young people of the concept of "behaviour breeds results".
The Chinese do not come home loudly at 4am cos they are probably still working. mostly foreigners working at petrol stations here at weekends as the Irish do not do weekends.

The US treats all foreigners equally. The Irish government is trying to push them towards giving our illegals, sorry undocumented Irish, special privledges.

I gather the travelling community and their tarmacing business which they bring to the states has also given us a bad name.
 

cnocpm

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Carl Claudius

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he broke the law. what else can he expect? The Americans actually have standards, otherwise their country would descend into chaos.sure why doesn't he bring his woman and child over to Ireland?

A reading of the quoted article indicates they are no longer a couple.[/QUOTE]

I only skimmed through that article but they do not appear to be married and in this country if you are not married custody automatically goes to the mother so it would not necessarily be easier for him in Ireland.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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. . .I gather the travelling community and their tarmacing business which they bring to the states has also given us a bad name.
There's not too many Irish immigrant Travellers in the US. Some small bands exist that came over in the Great Hunger and have stayed within set units, usually with the same patterns of conduct, and they do indeed have a notorious reputation for such scams and other misconduct.

In the US, though, a non citizen is subject to deportation for criminal misconduct, and they don't give a toss about their moaning and groaning about having a spouse and kids, etc. No exceptions to deportation exist for most offences of concern, e.g, crimes involving dishonesty, assault, drug dealing, etc. Serious criminal misconduct also gets a tough criminal sentence. You just get a detention notice once you get locked up and you're tossed once your sentence is completed. That's probably a major deterrent for any scam Travellers and others who wish to go to the US for predatory purposes. Lawful immigration also requires being self-sufficient and not being entitled to dole.
 
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cnocpm

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I only skimmed through that article but they do not appear to be married and in this country if you are not married custody automatically goes to the mother so it would not necessarily be easier for him in Ireland.[/QUOTE]

Was simply pointing out they are no longer a couple,as you posed the question regarding her coming to Ireland.
(I notice the quote function attributed your quote to me)
 

sadmal

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I hope the Irish government will do the same for the undocumented Nigerians and Chinese in this country.
It's funny how the Irish people who demand special treatment for Irish people living illegally in the US are the same people who demand the government stamp down hard on illegals living here.
 

Little_Korean

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Tough titty, he should have followed the rules of the country he's so keen to be part of.
 

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