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Irish integration.


Crack hoe

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Irish people in UK 'less likely to identify themselves as British' than other groups - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

It would seem that we have a problem in integrating in to Britain. Many of the poster bemoan the lack of intergration of immigrants in to lreland. Sauce for the goose is surly sauuce for the gander?
Is it only Britain that we find it difficult to find a new life or do we try harder in other countries to integrate or prehaps in other countries like Australia and the United States that they would not tolerate this kind of nonsense?
 

Kev408

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Irish people in UK 'less likely to identify themselves as British' than other groups - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

It would seem that we have a problem in integrating in to Britain. Many of the poster bemoan the lack of intergration of immigrants in to lreland. Sauce for the goose is surly sauuce for the gander?
Is it only Britain that we find it difficult to find a new life or do we try harder in other countries to integrate or prehaps in other countries like Australia and the United States that they would not tolerate this kind of nonsense?
There is no mention in your link of Irish people finding it difficult to find a new life in Britain - none whatsoever. It simply states that Irish people are more likely to retain their identity than some others.
 

Crack hoe

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There is no mention in your link of Irish people finding it difficult to find a new life in Britain - none whatsoever. It simply states that Irish people are more likely to retain their identity than some others.
Yes you are correct there is no mention of it
What would consider to be full integration in the host country?
 

Schomberg

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It's a product of recent history, and fairly natural. I don't see a problem with Irish people in the UK recognizing that they are, indeed, Irish...
Being British doesn't cancel out Irish though.

Irish Catholics by and large have always mentally and physically ghettoised themselves wherever they went - the US, Australia, England, Scotland etc. It's bizarre. You'd understand it had they went to places that were actually foreign i.e. had another language and an unfamiliar culture, but they even did it in the anglosphere.

The article doesn't make it clear what Irish people it's talking about either. First generation? New immigrants? or is this third, fourth generation "Irish" British people?
 

Crack hoe

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Up to them what they call themselves. I have no trouble saying that I am both British and Irish as I was born in Britain, but I'd think my parents odd if they started calling themselves British when they're clearly not.
So the Olympian African guy with 10000m gold and the hand signal M thing he does is not british?
 

Porkypie

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Up to them what they call themselves. I have no trouble saying that I am both British and Irish as I was born in Britain, but I'd think my parents odd if they started calling themselves British when they're clearly not.
Your top half is British and your bottom half is Irish. Just an observation.
 

Kev408

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Yes you are correct there is no mention of it
What would consider to be full integration in the host country?
You need to address the misleading comment where you suggested Irish people have difficulty in finding a life in Britain. You implied that that was part of the link or you made the extraordinary leap yourself I.e. you are the one assuming that the completely harmless habit of acknowledging and retaining ones identity is somehow linked to finding it difficult to make a like somewhere - it isn't.
 

Schomberg

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you are the one assuming that the completely harmless habit of acknowledging and retaining ones identity is somehow linked to finding it difficult to make a like somewhere - it isn't.
Unless of course the person doing something "harmless" like "acknowledging and retaining ones identity" happens to be a Donegal Orangemen. Then they're scum.

:roll:
 
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Being British doesn't cancel out Irish though.

Irish Catholics by and large have always mentally and physically ghettoised themselves wherever they went - the US, Australia, England, Scotland etc. It's bizarre. You'd understand it had they went to places that were actually foreign i.e. had another language and an unfamiliar culture, but they even did it in the anglosphere.

The article doesn't make it clear what Irish people it's talking about either. First generation? New immigrants? or is this third, fourth generation "Irish" British people?

My pretty extensive experience of second generation Irish people is that they tended to split into either very Irish or very British in self-identification (I went the former, plenty I knew went the latter). That was because we grew up in the 70s and 80s and it was an extremely difficult time to be Irish in England - a warped and slightly sinister atmosphere was natural to us growing up. Those conditions have now been removed and I don't think the same dichotomy would exist for second generation Irish people now. Third and fourth generation then, you tend to just see them identify as British, albeit with an awareness of varying degrees, sometimes pride in, sometimes indifference to, their Irish background.

Primarily, Irish people identify as non-British because there is a special box for them to tick marked 'white Irish'. You'll find that the majority of Irish descent, however, will just tick 'white British'.
 

Sync

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It's a product of recent history, and fairly natural. I don't see a problem with Irish people in the UK recognizing that they are, indeed, Irish...
Plus the geographical location lends itself to a lack of permanence. You don't move to England or France or Switzerland for 10 years thinking "This is forever, now I'm Swiss", you think "I'll go here for a while and go back to Ireland every month or so". It's different for Pakistanis or Indians who view it as "We're going to move to England and raise our kids there and live there for good".

Irish people tend to move for purely economic reasons there, others for cultural as well as economic reasosn
 

Schomberg

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My pretty extensive experience of second generation Irish people is that they tended to split into either very Irish or very British in self-identification (I went the former, plenty I knew went the latter). That was because we grew up in the 70s and 80s and it was an extremely difficult time to be Irish in England - a warped and slightly sinister atmosphere was natural to us growing up. Those conditions have now been removed and I don't think the same dichotomy would exist for second generation Irish people now. Third and fourth generation then, you tend to just see them identify as British, albeit with an awareness of varying degrees, sometimes pride in, sometimes indifference to, their Irish background.

Primarily, Irish people identify as non-British because there is a special box for them to tick marked 'white Irish'. You'll find that the majority of Irish descent, however, will just tick 'white British'.
I tick the "white British" box simply because that what my passport happens to be but I'm still obviously Irish. I don't view one as cancelling out the other so I suppose it depends on your POV. I won't argue with you about the ins and outs of the feelings amongst people of Irish extraction here as I've very little experience of them other than new immigrants or the odd person telling me their gran was from BLAH or the like. The "white Irish"box was surly something added at the behest of the Irish community, wasn't it? Seems a tad odd in this day and age. Surly anyone who wanted could just tick the "white" box.
 

Sync

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Aug 27, 2009
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It's a product of recent history, and fairly natural. I don't see a problem with Irish people in the UK recognizing that they are, indeed, Irish...
Plus the geographical location lends itself to a lack of permanence. You don't move to England or France or Switzerland for 10 years thinking "This is forever, now I'm Swiss", you think "I'll go here for a while and go back to Ireland every month or so". It's different for Pakistanis or Indians who view it as "We're going to move to England and raise our kids there and live there for good".

Irish people tend to move for purely economic reasons there, others for cultural as well as economic reasosn
 

Odyessus

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How about any other ethnic group or are we special?

From the article:



"The only ethnic group with a lower percentage who identify as British are "Other White"..................Mr Smith added that many "Other White" immigrants would have no need to get UK citizenship. He said: "The other white category would be mainly the Eastern Europeans, so the Poles, Lithuanians, people like that. "The fact that most of the Eastern Europeans have come in the last decade obviously affects their perception: they don't feel British, they feel Polish.

"And there's no need for them, for example, to get UK citizenship because they have the same rights in this country without. "A Polish passport is fine: you can work, you can live here, so there's no need to become a UK citizen." Irish people who were born outside the UK but live in Britain were also less likely to hold a UK passport.

More than 91% of Irish people born outside of the UK do not have a UK passport, compared to 45% of Indians born outside of the UK and 31% of Pakistanis born outside of the UK."
 

Crack hoe

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You need to address the misleading comment where you suggested Irish people have difficulty in finding a life in Britain. You implied that that was part of the link or you made the extraordinary leap yourself I.e. you are the one assuming that the completely harmless habit of acknowledging and retaining ones identity is somehow linked to finding it difficult to make a like somewhere - it isn't.


Do I?

The link is the link you can draw from that as you will.
The harmless habit of retaining ones indenity (by that I guess you mean culture and nationality). Is what many people on this site have a problem with immigration in Ireland. I just find it rather ironic.
 
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