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Irish medium education - why parents should choose this option.


D

Dylan2010

the simple rule, dont send your kids to a school where the kids call their parents Ma & Da :D
 

imokyrok

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
4,507
A report has stated that Irish medium education is substantially more successful than english medium, to the effect that 14% were more likely to go into further education.
Fee-paying students more likely to go to college - RTÉ News
So parents, if you want the best education for your children, consider your local bunscoil.
I don't think it is that straight forward. I would imagine if ET schools were compared to Irish schools the results would be fairly similar. You tend to get parents who are forward planners and thinking about college from the day their kids are born with both those type of schools and what with waiting lists it's the children of forward planners that get into them.

In addition the Irish medium schools can be a disadvantage for children with learning difficulties. In fact I'm personally aware of three separate children who weren't identified as having quite severe dyslexia and in one case other pronounced difficulties until they considerably older than one would expect such issues to be diagnosed. So there are pluses and minus. Your child that attends an Irish school is likely to be attending with other children who's parents are well motivated towards education and involvement in day to day school activities but a child with difficulties will likely be at a disadvantage and generally these difficulties are not apparent before a child has already settled into a school so moving them can be traumatic.
 
D

Dylan2010

I don't think it is that straight forward. I would imagine if ET schools were compared to Irish schools the results would be fairly similar. You tend to get parents who are forward planners and thinking about college from the day their kids are born with both those type of schools and what with waiting lists it's the children of forward planners that get into them.

In addition the Irish medium schools can be a disadvantage for children with learning difficulties. In fact I'm personally aware of three separate children who weren't identified as having quite severe dyslexia and in one case other pronounced difficulties until they considerably older than one would expect such issues to be diagnosed. So there are pluses and minus. Your child that attends an Irish school is likely to be attending with other children who's parents are well motivated towards education and involvement in day to day school activities but a child with difficulties will likely be at a disadvantage and generally these difficulties are not apparent before a child has already settled into a school so moving them can be traumatic.
indeed, the real causality is, if parents make the education of their kids a top priority, they will generally go to college. The trick is to find an environment of like minded parents so that the ethos of the other kids isnt undermining your own efforts.
 

ManInTheArena

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
2,604
I thought this thread was about teaching people to contact the spirit world as Gaeilge. Disappointed now. :(
 

Asparagus

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Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Messages
4,882
A report has stated that Irish medium education is substantially more successful than english medium, to the effect that 14% were more likely to go into further education.
Fee-paying students more likely to go to college - RTÉ News
So parents, if you want the best education for your children, consider your local bunscoil.
Wow.
Now what are the sample sizes?
because the narrative in the piece is very highlevel
The data found students in all-Irish schools 14% more likely to be in college one year later.
i have a feeling that is this a comparison between (97%) Apples and (3%) Oráistí
in which case 14% is statistically irrelevant.
 

Squib

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2009
Messages
443
[SUP][/SUP]
Surely it would make more sense to teach through a useful and used language; spanish/french/german.
Or why not English? The worlds 2nd most widely spoken language (and most widely spoken 2nd language), the worlds Lingua Franca and the basis of all high level programming languages.
 

Prester Jim

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
10,071
Unfortunately this is 90% a class issue, pure and simple.
I have yet to find published work on this but from my own observations; the children from the three classes I come across daily: middle class, working class and non-working class (no I don't mean capitalists) behave differently towards education.

The middle class kids get pressure to work from home and high expectations to succeed.
The do not all react well or positively to this but the fact remains those forces are there.
They also have resources at home that may not be in all homes; books, educated adults to help with homework and make sure they are doing it. Parents who are invested in their kids and who have high social capital; know the best local schools, know how to get resources for their kids and in the wealthier cases have access to private schools etc.

The working class (parents who are or are not employed but want to work) kids have most of the above but often with less money and so are excluded from private education, grinds and sometimes, but not always parents that have all the skills to help their kids with advanced homework, projects etc.
They will usually have parents who have less social capital but care a great deal about their kids future and will make every effort to help them.
However, usually but not always, the working class parents will have lower aspirations for their kids as they may have ideas of their own limits and transfer them to their own kids.
That said, these are generalisations and there are terrible and great parents in both classes who buck the trends.

The non-working class; parents who have no jobs and who didn't during the boom and may have several generations of unemployed in the house or in the vicinity.
These kids do not have an interest in work, will resist any effort to get them to work and have virtually no aspirations on leaving school.
Shocking statement no?
I have 14 pupils that conform to the above stereotype 100% for their behaviour in school.
Upon giving a list of these pupils and several others to the school-parent liaison she told me the family situation for all of them, the 14 pupils who fail to perform are all form these non-worker familys, the others I had in the list are kids with varying ability but all are willing to work and have ambitions for their post school years.

The divisions mentioned between Gaeilge schools, private schools, secondary, community and VEC schools is just masking the division beneath the statistics; class.

I would go so far as to say your chance of birth dictates most of your chances in life in Ireland, pretty bad stuff for a state so invested in the idea of a republic with equality of opportunity.
 
D

Dylan2010

.....I would go so far as to say your chance of birth dictates most of your chances in life in Ireland, pretty bad stuff for a state so invested in the idea of a republic with equality of opportunity.
The ideal is a nonsense , if people resist developing social capital there is nothing that can be done with them. The onus on the education system should be at least give them enough education to do the basics not put them through a "civil service" enterance education which they do not want.
 

zakalwe1

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 3, 2008
Messages
5,306
I don't think it is that straight forward. I would imagine if ET schools were compared to Irish schools the results would be fairly similar. You tend to get parents who are forward planners and thinking about college from the day their kids are born with both those type of schools and what with waiting lists it's the children of forward planners that get into them.

In addition the Irish medium schools can be a disadvantage for children with learning difficulties. In fact I'm personally aware of three separate children who weren't identified as having quite severe dyslexia and in one case other pronounced difficulties until they considerably older than one would expect such issues to be diagnosed. So there are pluses and minus. Your child that attends an Irish school is likely to be attending with other children who's parents are well motivated towards education and involvement in day to day school activities but a child with difficulties will likely be at a disadvantage and generally these difficulties are not apparent before a child has already settled into a school so moving them can be traumatic.
100% true...
add to that the potent enticement of 10% bonus points for doing the leaving as gaeilge...
end that advantage and the irish schools would fall dramatically as well motivated parents send their kids to the nearest good school which might not be the irish language one
 

Prester Jim

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Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
10,071
The ideal is a nonsense , if people resist developing social capital there is nothing that can be done with them. The onus on the education system should be at least give them enough education to do the basics not put them through a "civil service" enterance education which they do not want.
I am all for personal responsibility, but some people are born into families, locales/estates, peer groups where there are no positive stereotypes except the teachers or social workers etc.
A kid who sees everyone he or she empathises with doing nothing and having no apparent issues with doing nothing, they will do the same.
I know as a teacher that they strongly resist any attempt to push them to work and will resent rather than emulate teachers, Gardai, social workers etc, that try to help them or see that little bit further then their immediate peers.
We need intervention at a very early age; 1 or 2 years old so we can fully inculcate values they will need to be productive.
I don't like interventionism or the nanny state but I don't see an alternative unless we just accept the perpetual existence of an underclass that are actually more fecund then the working classes and may in fact be growing faster.
Cutting off benefits will just increase crime and poverty IMHO.
 
D

Dylan2010

I don't like interventionism or the nanny state but I don't see an alternative unless we just accept the perpetual existence of an underclass that are actually more fecund then the working classes and may in fact be growing faster.
Cutting off benefits will just increase crime and poverty IMHO.
but there is benefits chasing in this country, such individuals would be better off emigrating or anything to so that they get a basic understanding of cause and effect and to develop some kind of work ethic. To facilitate a cycle of supporting such "family formation" in the first place is cruel
Clearily even within the non working groups there are good mothers/parents trying to do the best for their kids and yes they ought to be supported or given preference under the present sytem. But the Stick needs to be at least as big as the carrot. Also the decent parents need to be protected from their ferrel neighbours.
 
D

Dylan2010

Joke? Yes? I hope so;)
a mother I know who lives out Cabinteeley way said it to me once about the local secondary schools. One state school attracts a lower socioeconomic group if you will than the other one. What would you do? :D
 

Lonewolfe

Well-known member
Joined
May 4, 2011
Messages
17,469
a mother I know who lives out Cabinteeley way said it to me once about the local secondary schools. One state school attracts a lower socioeconomic group if you will than the other one. What would you do? :D
Honestly, it wold depend on a number of things, least of them being whether or not the kids call their parents Ma & Da or Mom & Pappa.

Take Drimnagh Castle for instance, MA & Bleedin Da all the way, still a great school.
 

EvotingMachine0197

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Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
8,629

runwiththewind

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
12,696
Unfortunately this is 90% a class issue, pure and simple.
I have yet to find published work on this but from my own observations; the children from the three classes I come across daily: middle class, working class and non-working class (no I don't mean capitalists) behave differently towards education.

The middle class kids get pressure to work from home and high expectations to succeed.
The do not all react well or positively to this but the fact remains those forces are there.
They also have resources at home that may not be in all homes; books, educated adults to help with homework and make sure they are doing it. Parents who are invested in their kids and who have high social capital; know the best local schools, know how to get resources for their kids and in the wealthier cases have access to private schools etc.

The working class (parents who are or are not employed but want to work) kids have most of the above but often with less money and so are excluded from private education, grinds and sometimes, but not always parents that have all the skills to help their kids with advanced homework, projects etc.
They will usually have parents who have less social capital but care a great deal about their kids future and will make every effort to help them.
However, usually but not always, the working class parents will have lower aspirations for their kids as they may have ideas of their own limits and transfer them to their own kids.
That said, these are generalisations and there are terrible and great parents in both classes who buck the trends.

The non-working class; parents who have no jobs and who didn't during the boom and may have several generations of unemployed in the house or in the vicinity.
These kids do not have an interest in work, will resist any effort to get them to work and have virtually no aspirations on leaving school.
Shocking statement no?
I have 14 pupils that conform to the above stereotype 100% for their behaviour in school.
Upon giving a list of these pupils and several others to the school-parent liaison she told me the family situation for all of them, the 14 pupils who fail to perform are all form these non-worker familys, the others I had in the list are kids with varying ability but all are willing to work and have ambitions for their post school years.

The divisions mentioned between Gaeilge schools, private schools, secondary, community and VEC schools is just masking the division beneath the statistics; class.

I would go so far as to say your chance of birth dictates most of your chances in life in Ireland, pretty bad stuff for a state so invested in the idea of a republic with equality of opportunity.
The state can guarantee equality of opportunity but it cannot guarantee equality of success, no state on earth can.

Success or that lack of it, lies solely with the individual, or in this case the parents.
 
D

Dylan2010

Honestly, it wold depend on a number of things, least of them being whether or not the kids call their parents Ma & Da or Mom & Pappa.

Take Drimnagh Castle for instance, MA & Bleedin Da all the way, still a great school.
all things being equal if there is a situation where 2 schools within walking distance attact a different set of kids by socio economic group the default would be to pick the school where the families have on average better social capital. The other school would have ot be doing amazing things to want to swing it.
 
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