Irish mental health sysstem

Toasty

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So last night I was listening to a friend of mine describe an absolutely appalling story of how he was dragged through the mental health system. I had heard similar reports before but this was truly terrifying and had to be a gross violation of human rights. The one big takeaway was that there was a recurring theme of them not listening to what he had to say and every session was like an interrogation. It seems at various points that they were trying to get a diagnosis, any diagnosis so they could wrap it up and effectively neutralise him on a cocktail of dangerous drugs and put him under extreme pressure and his parents under pressure to get him to sign various documents to that effect. I've known this guy about 12 years and it very much sounds like all he needed was anger-management coaching. I felt like crying afterwards.

The big question is this: Why is it like that? Sure there have been some improvements but why does a modern democratic western country allow this to happen and why does it grossly lag behind many other European countries. I think the answer lies in social engineering........... It's supposed to be like that.

The question you then have to ask is who or what would have an interest in engineering a society to be dysfunctional on the psychological and emotional level?


A cursory look at the countries with the best mental health systems, shows them, at least among the indigenous populations to be among the most secular and atheistic.

Organised irrational belief systems cannot survive for the long term in these enlightened times in a psychologically healthy society, they would die within a few generations.

Ireland has been socially engineered by the Catholic Church to be a dysfunctional society in order to ensure its own survival as an irrational and outdated belief system and the mental health system is a key part of that machinery.
 
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derryman

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So last night I was listening to a friend of mine describe an absolutely appalling story of how he was dragged through the mental health system. I had heard similar reports before but this was truly terrifying and had to be a gross violation of human rights. The one big takeaway was that there was a recurring theme of them not listening to what he had to say and every session was like an interrogation. It seems at various points that they were trying to get a diagnosis, any diagnosis so they could wrap it up and effectively neutralise him on a cocktail of dangerous drugs and put him under extreme pressure and his parents under pressure to get him to sign various documents to that effect. I've known this guy about 12 years and it very much sounds like all he needed was anger-management coaching. I felt like crying afterwards.

The big question is this: Why is it like that? Sure there have been some improvements but why does a modern democratic western country allow this to happen and why does it grossly lag behind many other European countries. I think the answer lies in social engineering........... It's supposed to be like that.

The question you then have to ask is who or what would have an interest in engineering a society to be dysfunctional on the psychological and emotional level?


A cursory look at the countries with the best mental health systems, shows them, at least among the indigenous populations to be among the most secular and atheistic.

Organised irrational belief systems cannot survive for the long term in these enlightened times in a psychologically healthy society, they would die within a few generations.

Ireland has been socially engineered by the Catholic Church to be a dysfunctional society in order to ensure its own survival as an irrational and outdated belief system and the mental health system is a key part of that machinery.
You have made a lot of assertions and offered nothing to support them. Your OP is little more than a rant against Catholicism.
 

Texal Tom

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I once was in Romania - 2001 - very secular and atheistic. I visited an orphanage which was jammed packed with abandoned children with various illness and disabilities..... Not a sign of a cross or a priest

Ask the Sami people in northern Sweden just how egalitarian the blonde blue eyed secular atheists were to them.....

But facts are not good for predjudices
 

former wesleyan

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You have made a lot of assertions and offered nothing to support them. Your OP is little more than a rant against Catholicism.
I'd agree. In fact my doc said that Catholics with their access to confession had a good thing going for them. For the minor stuff anyway.
 

DJP

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So last night I was listening to a friend of mine describe an absolutely appalling story of how he was dragged through the mental health system. I had heard similar reports before but this was truly terrifying and had to be a gross violation of human rights. The one big takeaway was that there was a recurring theme of them not listening to what he had to say and every session was like an interrogation. It seems at various points that they were trying to get a diagnosis, any diagnosis so they could wrap it up and effectively neutralise him on a cocktail of dangerous drugs and put him under extreme pressure and his parents under pressure to get him to sign various documents to that effect. I've known this guy about 12 years and it very much sounds like all he needed was anger-management coaching. I felt like crying afterwards.
I'm led to believe that if you have an addiction problem that the vast bulk of public hospitals in Ireland can do nothing for you as the doctors and nurses are not trained in treating addictions. Telling you to "go to AA" "go to NA" (Narcotics Anonymous) seems to be the message they have. I believe new trainee psychiatrist nurses are being trained in addictions though- this only came in this year so is some good news. I don't know exactly what their training will entail but it should help somewhat. M. Scott Peck (the psychiatrist famous for in particular writing The Road Less Travelled book) said when he was alive that roughly have of his patients had some kind of spiritual (whether religious or not) needs. This is another area that most psychiatric staff, like most of the population in general mind, are lacking in. (I am talking about spirituality, not religion). There also seems to be a huge lack of complementary therapies on offer for psychiatric patients, where in-patient or out-patient. I think there is a shortage of Occupational Therapists in general though. My cousin teachers dance in a psychiatric hospital, and I know a fella studying Art Therapy. I think there is a huge shortage of a lot of therapies in psychiatric hospitals so this is an area in demand of staff if any of you are interested and/or could pass the message on to people you know who might be.

At the same time psychiatric nurses are overworked I think as they are down a lot of staff since 2008. I don't know if there is a shortage of psychiatrists but I think there may be a shortage of psychologists.
 

popular1

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So last night I was listening to a friend of mine describe an absolutely appalling story of how he was dragged through the mental health system. I had heard similar reports before but this was truly terrifying and had to be a gross violation of human rights. The one big takeaway was that there was a recurring theme of them not listening to what he had to say and every session was like an interrogation. It seems at various points that they were trying to get a diagnosis, any diagnosis so they could wrap it up and effectively neutralise him on a cocktail of dangerous drugs and put him under extreme pressure and his parents under pressure to get him to sign various documents to that effect. I've known this guy about 12 years and it very much sounds like all he needed was anger-management

coaching. I felt like crying afterwards.



I think you attach too much importance to the church
There is a shortage of professionals of all kinds
There are good staff and bad staff
Some care and some don't
If your lucky you might be dealt with by people who care
But like a lot of caring professions a lot of the people at
The top are careerists instead of carers
It easier to give pills than spend time talking to people
Which is sometimes all they need
 

Kevin Parlon

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Ireland has been socially engineered by the Catholic Church to be a dysfunctional society in order to ensure its own survival as an irrational and outdated belief system and the mental health system is a key part of that machinery.
You flatter the church. Indeed, your post reminds me of 9/11 truth in that is ascribes waaaaay too much prescience and manipulative skill to what is, after all, a body of people who have convinced themselves of the complete and utter truth of what are raging absurdities. The Catholic church isn't all bad. A lot of the people in it have genuinely dedicated their lives to the betterment of others.

So, yeah. No. The Irish mental health system is not great for the same reason our local government or planning laws aren't great. Incompetence.
 

popular1

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So last night I was listening to a friend of mine describe an absolutely appalling story of how he was dragged through the mental health system. I had heard similar reports before but this was truly terrifying and had to be a gross violation of human rights. The one big takeaway was that there was a recurring theme of them not listening to what he had to say and every session was like an interrogation. It seems at various points that they were trying to get a diagnosis, any diagnosis so they could wrap it up and effectively neutralise him on a cocktail of dangerous drugs and put him under extreme pressure and his parents under pressure to get him to sign various documents to that effect. I've known this guy about 12 years and it very much sounds like all he needed was anger-management

coaching. I felt like crying afterwards.



I think you attach too much importance to the church
There is a shortage of professionals of all kinds
There are good staff and bad staff
Some care and some don't
If your lucky you might be dealt with by people who care
But like a lot of caring professions a lot of the people at
The top are careerists instead of carers
It easier to give pills than spend time talking to people
Which is sometimes all they need
i have a bit of insight into this as i have a close relative who has some problems
also my wife is a trained mental health nurse as well as an ID trained Nurse
I picked her up this morning from work, she worked nightshirt last night
she cant do enough for her service users and goes beyond the call of duty
She works nightshirt and stays awake all night while her staff sleep from 12 onward
for this she is seen as a fool and a bit of a tyrant but she wants to do as much as she can
she cant understand how these people can sleep knowing this is costing the service a fortune
this is the culture in the service and management do not care, they are all getting paid
She is ostracized at times because she rails against this horrible waste of resources
in a service where there is a shortage of money which impacts services
There is a lack of funding but a lot of the funding is wasted on people
working in these services for the wrong reason, cos its job and for money
this is prevalent throughout the service from the bottom to the top
my wife goes to mass when she can, she went this morning after work
I dont believe everything she does but she is a catholic and it in no way
affects how she does her work. If they were all like her in the service
there would still be problems but it wouldn't be for the want of trying.
 

Toasty

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So, just to expand and clarify a bit on the original post. I'm not talking about individuals who happen to be Catholic. I'm talking about Catholicism in the wider sense as a social organism, a meme that mutates and adapts in various ways throughout time and space in order to survive. Religions are not the only such creatures but they are a very good example of them. Sure, people are the collective vehicles in which the idea lives but it takes lots and lots of them before a social construct takes hold.

If you go back a few hundred years, it was perfectly "acceptable" and normal to torture and kill heretics and doubters in order to protect the religion and keep it alive. As time went by and society became more enlightened, this approach became no longer feasible. Sometime around the 19th century, it took on a more sophisticated strategy of social engineering, realising the potential of collective social pressure using more subtle psychological and emotional tactics and, where possible, the help of the machinery of the state -

Education, Health Services, high level access to key decisions in government policy formulation in relation to a whole gauntlet of different areas, all of which were pretty much handed to them on a silver platter in the early 1920's in Ireland. So in a sense, apart from the Vatican and possibly Malta after independence, they now effectively had their own country.

Religions are living social memes and they will do whatever it takes to survive, some of them are not very successful but others have evolved to become finely tuned machines at it.
 

derryman

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So, just to expand and clarify a bit on the original post. I'm not talking about individuals who happen to be Catholic. I'm talking about Catholicism in the wider sense as a social organism, a meme that mutates and adapts in various ways throughout time and space in order to survive. Religions are not the only such creatures but they are a very good example of them. Sure, people are the collective vehicles in which the idea lives but it takes lots and lots of them before a social construct takes hold.

If you go back a few hundred years, it was perfectly "acceptable" and normal to torture and kill heretics and doubters in order to protect the religion and keep it alive. As time went by and society became more enlightened, this approach became no longer feasible. Sometime around the 19th century, it took on a more sophisticated strategy of social engineering, realising the potential of collective social pressure using more subtle psychological and emotional tactics and, where possible, the help of the machinery of the state -

Education, Health Services, high level access to key decisions in government policy formulation in relation to a whole gauntlet of different areas, all of which were pretty much handed to them on a silver platter in the early 1920's in Ireland. So in a sense, apart from the Vatican and possibly Malta after independence, they now effectively had their own country.

Religions are living social memes and they will do whatever it takes to survive, some of them are not very successful but others have evolved to become finely tuned machines at it.


Even an uneducated semi literate like myself knows gobbledygook when I see it.
 

GDPR

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Suicide More Likely With Protestants Than Catholics

Study: suicide rate higher among Protestants than Catholics

Study shows suicide rates higher among Atheist then any other selected group block. | IGN Boards

Oh and....

Rural pensioners are Ireland's happiest people, says survey...

So the happiest people in Republic of Ireland are cluchies who had their souls formed prior to the changes that came in after Vatican II.

Carl Jung remarked that Catholics were far less neurotic than Prods, a Jew on this forum threw that at me and wondered why I was so neurotic but I pointed out I was raised Prod.
 

GDPR

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Even an uneducated semi literate like myself knows gobbledygook when I see it.
I wouldn't say you are that at all and even if you were intelligence is nothing if don't put to good use. It is better to be thick and wise as opposed to being bright and a fool.
 

Texal Tom

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So, just to expand and clarify a bit on the original post. I'm not talking about individuals who happen to be Catholic. I'm talking about Catholicism in the wider sense as a social organism, a meme that mutates and adapts in various ways throughout time and space in order to survive. Religions are not the only such creatures but they are a very good example of them. Sure, people are the collective vehicles in which the idea lives but it takes lots and lots of them before a social construct takes hold.

If you go back a few hundred years, it was perfectly "acceptable" and normal to torture and kill heretics and doubters in order to protect the religion and keep it alive. As time went by and society became more enlightened, this approach became no longer feasible. Sometime around the 19th century, it took on a more sophisticated strategy of social engineering, realising the potential of collective social pressure using more subtle psychological and emotional tactics and, where possible, the help of the machinery of the state -

Education, Health Services, high level access to key decisions in government policy formulation in relation to a whole gauntlet of different areas, all of which were pretty much handed to them on a silver platter in the early 1920's in Ireland. So in a sense, apart from the Vatican and possibly Malta after independence, they now effectively had their own country.

Religions are living social memes and they will do whatever it takes to survive, some of them are not very successful but others have evolved to become finely tuned machines at it.
Are you on acid!
 
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Toasty

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Well I was expecting some ************************, that always happens in this country when you have the cheek to question long standing traditions and ways of doing things. It's ok though, progression in the face of fierce conservatism is a slow process, 2 steps forward & 1 step back. You guys are all obviously too young to remember when you had to get a prescription from a cooperative GP to obtain contraception, or when you couldn't even get it at all except on the black market or smuggle it in; a pristine example of church interference in state affairs and the healthy lives of ordinary people - having a large measure of control over the demographics and habits of sexual activity, basically keeping the numbers up to keep the religion alive.

Or how about the Mother & Child Scheme in the 1950's?.....or the longstanding link between the KOC and the medical profession, abortion, divorce, censorship - basically dictating what you can or cannot read or view. Admittedly some of these things have come to pass, and very late at that, but it was only through the determined effort of progressives in the face of almost complete and unwavering opposition from the status quo. I'm still sticking to my original premise, that these things are all for a reason which I've outlined above. Think about it, how can any organisation which promotes irrationality and cognitive dissonance survive in a modern state with all the information we have at our fingertips now?
 

derryman

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Well I was expecting some ************************, that always happens in this country when you have the cheek to question long standing traditions and ways of doing things. It's ok though, progression in the face of fierce conservatism is a slow process, 2 steps forward & 1 step back. You guys are all obviously too young to remember when you had to get a prescription from a cooperative GP to obtain contraception, or when you couldn't even get it at all except on the black market or smuggle it in; a pristine example of church interference in state affairs and the healthy lives of ordinary people - having a large measure of control over the demographics and habits of sexual activity, basically keeping the numbers up to keep the religion alive.

Or how about the Mother & Child Scheme in the 1950's?.....or the longstanding link between the KOC and the medical profession, abortion, divorce, censorship - basically dictating what you can or cannot read or view. Admittedly some of these things have come to pass, and very late at that, but it was only through the determined effort of progressives in the face of almost complete and unwavering opposition from the status quo. I'm still sticking to my original premise, that these things are all for a reason which I've outlined above. Think about it, how can any organisation which promotes irrationality and cognitive dissonance survive in a modern state with all the information we have at our fingertips now?
Och I know how you feel. Your not the first to reminisce for the good old times when in their cups. You will feel different in the morning.
 

Wagmore

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Well I was expecting some ************************, that always happens in this country when you have the cheek to question long standing traditions and ways of doing things. It's ok though, progression in the face of fierce conservatism is a slow process, 2 steps forward & 1 step back. You guys are all obviously too young to remember when you had to get a prescription from a cooperative GP to obtain contraception, or when you couldn't even get it at all except on the black market or smuggle it in; a pristine example of church interference in state affairs and the healthy lives of ordinary people - having a large measure of control over the demographics and habits of sexual activity, basically keeping the numbers up to keep the religion alive.

Or how about the Mother & Child Scheme in the 1950's?.....or the longstanding link between the KOC and the medical profession, abortion, divorce, censorship - basically dictating what you can or cannot read or view. Admittedly some of these things have come to pass, and very late at that, but it was only through the determined effort of progressives in the face of almost complete and unwavering opposition from the status quo. I'm still sticking to my original premise, that these things are all for a reason which I've outlined above. Think about it, how can any organisation which promotes irrationality and cognitive dissonance survive in a modern state with all the information we have at our fingertips now?
Feeble reasoning on so many levels. Bash the Church all you like, I'm not a fan, but to shoehorn a correlation between Church influence and mental health failings in society marks you out as a lightweight secular ideologue who knows little of what you speak. Church influence is currently almost non--existant in this society yet there has been a veritable epidemic in depression and suicide.
 

Toasty

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Suicide More Likely With Protestants Than Catholics

Study: suicide rate higher among Protestants than Catholics

Study shows suicide rates higher among Atheist then any other selected group block. | IGN Boards

Oh and....

Rural pensioners are Ireland's happiest people, says survey...

So the happiest people in Republic of Ireland are cluchies who had their souls formed prior to the changes that came in after Vatican II.

Carl Jung remarked that Catholics were far less neurotic than Prods, a Jew on this forum threw that at me and wondered why I was so neurotic but I pointed out I was raised Prod.
Well obviously the ones who fit in with the programme and don't question anything will be happiest in a country engineered for the survival for a particular belief system for the most part.
 

Wagmore

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Well obviously the ones who fit in with the programme and don't question anything will be happiest in a country engineered for the survival for a particular belief system for the most part.
2016 paging Toasty. Get back in your time machine and rejoin us...
 


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