Irish nurses unions' virtual closed shop against nursing assistants and associate professionals

Patslatt1

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This extremely restrictive trade union practice above (see stats in Healthcare personnel statistics - nursing and caring professionals - Statistics Explained ) may be modified,likely at a snailpace to prolong registered nurses' closed shop in hospital jobs. The closed shop concept largely disappeared in UK factories in the 1980s. Where have hospital managers been on this issue which interferes with management's prerogative to manage?

After three years of bureaucratic shuffle on research, it was concluded that an 80/20 ratio of Irish nurses to nurses assistants is optimal for patient care. But is it 80/20 in all hospital departments?

In the private sector, managers would check with their contacts who have information on the various ratios in the best hospitals internationally and run with that. Maybe they would take a few months at most to decide,making a final decision based on trial and error.

Given that the UK employs about a million nurses assistants, that suggests Ireland could employ 72,000 of them instead of about 27,000 at present. Of course, that would make a big dent in recruitment of nurses. The UK also has about 98,000 associate professional nurses which is equivalent to about 8,000 for Ireland which has none.
 
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Patslatt1

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This extremely restrictive trade union practice above (see stats in Healthcare personnel statistics - nursing and caring professionals - Statistics Explained ) may be modified,likely at a snailpace to prolong registered nurses' closed shop in hospital jobs. The closed shop concept largely disappeared in UK factories in the 1980s. Where have hospital managers been on this issue which interferes with management's prerogative to manage?

After three years of bureaucratic shuffle on research, it was concluded that an 80/20 ratio of Irish nurses to nurses assistants is optimal for patient care. But is it 80/20 in all hospital departments?

In the private sector, managers would check with their contacts who have information on the various ratios in the best hospitals internationally and run with that. Maybe they would take a few months at most to decide,making a final decision based on trial and error.

Given that the UK employs about a million nurses assistants, that suggests Ireland could employ 72,000 of them instead of about 27,000 at present. Of course, that would make a big dent in recruitment of nurses. The UK also has about 98,000 associate professional nurses which is equivalent to about 8,000 for Ireland which has none.
No response yet despite the importance of this issue for staffing hospitals adequately.
 

Craggyjack

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Nurses and HCAs

Maybe this issue goes to the heart of the nursing dichotomy towards being on one hand a degree level profession and at the same time hanging on to the more traditional nursing (female) roles of caring activity often described as"basic nursing care".
The older nursing staff may not have a primary degree and are happy with basic nursing care (less responsibility for higher-level duties). Conversely, younger nurses who have primary degree may prefer to engage in less basic care and concentrate on the expansion of the nursing role but are restrained from doing so by their older and senior colleagues, who prefer the status quo. I sometimes wonder if the prospect of 40 years of basic nursing care is no longer an attractive career path for someone with a primary degree and therefore may be a contributing factor to the recruitment and retention dilemma.
 
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Massey

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No response yet despite the importance of this issue for staffing hospitals adequately.
You keep having conversations with yourself Pat, That way you will have someone who agrees with you- and who is equally cerebrally challenged.
 

Patslatt1

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Maybe this issue goes to the heart of the nursing dichotomy towards being on one hand a degree level profession and at the same time hanging on to the more traditional nursing (female) roles of caring activity often described as"basic nursing care".
The older nursing staff may not have a primary degree and are happy with basic nursing care (less responsibility for higher-level duties). Conversely, younger nurses who have primary degree may prefer to engage in less basic care and concentrate on the expansion of the nursing role but are restrained from doing so by their older and senior colleagues, who prefer the status quo. I sometimes wonder if the prospect of 40 years of basic nursing care is no longer an attractive career path for someone with a primary degree and therefore may be a contributing factor to the recruitment and retention dilemma.
Are degreed nurses really "too posh to wash" patients? A doctor acquaintance in Canada joked many years ago that Canadian nurses with advanced education wanted to be "mini-doctors".
 

Dame_Enda

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There is a genuine and statistically backed gap between the pay and conditions of Irish nurses and their Canadian and Australian counterparts.
 

devoutcapitalist

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Can someone please explain why It takes 4 years for someone to be trained up to be a nurse through a Degree programme when many years ago a Degree wasn't required?
 

making waves

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So says the fan of hard left socialist Chavismo in Venezuela but he now contributes to famine relief charities there.
I take it that you haven't been reading my comments on the Venezuela thread - or maybe you are just too blinded by the public sector bashing to see.
 

IDBI0

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Can someone please explain why It takes 4 years for someone to be trained up to be a nurse through a Degree programme when many years ago a Degree wasn't required?
These days nurses have lectures and work on wards. Back then nurses worked on wards and had lectures. They are all equally skilled.
 

Patslatt1

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Can someone please explain why It takes 4 years for someone to be trained up to be a nurse through a Degree programme when many years ago a Degree wasn't required?
The unions persuaded the EU to require this for nurses working across EU countries. Maybe degreed nurses are better able to prevent expensive medical litigation.
 

Patslatt1

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I take it that you haven't been reading my comments on the Venezuela thread - or maybe you are just too blinded by the public sector bashing to see.
When did you realise Chavez had a big mouth suitable for marathon speeches and was extremely hostile to business knowing high oil prices could bail out his economic disasters for a time?
 

making waves

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When did you realise Chavez had a big mouth suitable for marathon speeches and was extremely hostile to business knowing high oil prices could bail out his economic disasters for a time?
1999 - when he was elected - and you can check every single post I have made on Venezuela on this forum and you will see my criticisms of Chavez and Maduro.

As for Chavez being 'hostile to business' - if he was then Venezuela might not be teetering on the verge of a counter-revolutionary coup today.
 

Uganda

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patslatt's daily bash the public sector thread - although these days it is turning into a daily bash the nurses thread.
So it's bashing the public service to point out we have more nurses per head than any other country in Europe except Luxembourg?

Next thing you'll be telling us is that they all eat cornflakes for their dinner.
 

making waves

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So it's bashing the public service to point out we have more nurses per head than any other country in Europe except Luxembourg?

Next thing you'll be telling us is that they all eat cornflakes for their dinner.
We have a worse nurses to patients ratio than many countries in Europe
 

Patslatt1

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1999 - when he was elected - and you can check every single post I have made on Venezuela on this forum and you will see my criticisms of Chavez and Maduro.

As for Chavez being 'hostile to business' - if he was then Venezuela might not be teetering on the verge of a counter-revolutionary coup today.
It's well known the Venezuelan government strangled businesses with uneconomic price controls that forced many to shut down.
 


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