Irish peat burning five times worse per head than Brazil's rain forest fires

Dearghoul

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Messages
8,830
You think people actually care?

Go back to Climate Change 101
Well no.

Nobody seemed to care in the slightest. That was my point.

So you think that concerns about turf arn't concerns that need to be deployed more urgently elsewhere?
 


offalypat

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 3, 2014
Messages
2,448
If you're starting position is going to be, "don't believe the science", well there is not going to be much to discuss really
how is that thing where they were going to create the big bang thing going remember the one in paris that there were millions wasted on was that science
 

Patslatt1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
4,086
Do elaborate on how wind power would survive in this country without the direct subsidies through the REFIT system, and indirect subsidies including carbon tax, and massive supporting public infrastructure spend.
Electricity supply bids in the USA without subsidies are very price competitive for wind energy in competition with fossil fuels. Most EU country subsidies are close to being phased out.
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
32,989
Electricity supply bids in the USA without subsidies are very price competitive for wind energy in competition with fossil fuels. Most EU country subsidies are close to being phased out.
The question was how wind power would survive in Ireland without subsidies, direct and indirect.
 

DJP

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
12,695
Website
darrenjprior.blogspot.com
Twitter
https://twitter.com/DarrenJPrior
At present, most Brazilian beef cattle are raised in the northeast of Brazil where introduction of an African variety of grass converted millions of arid acres to grassland for cattle.
??
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
32,989
Almost all used for electricity generation so it would be easy to reduce. The usual problem of the needs of a rural area being prioritised. What hotels and pubs use to have a homely fire burning would not add up to much consumption.
The biggest problem we face is how to replace Moneypoint. Since nuclear power is politically unacceptable, the only practical solution is to replace the coal fired capacity with natural gas. This can only be an interim solution, sooner or later we will have to either use nuclear power or drastically reduce electricity use.
 

Pyewacket

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Messages
2,956
The biggest problem we face is how to replace Moneypoint. Since nuclear power is politically unacceptable, the only practical solution is to replace the coal fired capacity with natural gas. This can only be an interim solution, sooner or later we will have to either use nuclear power or drastically reduce electricity use.
Do you remember the whining over "Shewer why should we pay water charges, it do be raining from the skies?"
 

Patslatt1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
4,086
The question was how wind power would survive in Ireland without subsidies, direct and indirect.
A friend who worked in Ireland for a German wind turbine manufacturer felt wind energy is competitive where interconnectors can supply alternative electricity when winds die down. It seems the giant turbines of 120 metres in height are far more efficient than the previous generation of smaller turbines.
 

Patslatt1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
4,086
The biggest problem we face is how to replace Moneypoint. Since nuclear power is politically unacceptable, the only practical solution is to replace the coal fired capacity with natural gas. This can only be an interim solution, sooner or later we will have to either use nuclear power or drastically reduce electricity use.
I'd worry about the availability of technical and engineering skills to build nuclear power plants. Colossal cost overruns have undermined the financial positions of French and Japanese nuclear power plant suppliers.
Another worry-trade unions would be able to extort huge wages from strikes at a nuclear power plant supplying a high proportion of electricity. As an indicator of excessive union power, in defiance of government policy the electricians union have prevented ESB from handing over management of its part of the power grid to Eirgrid.
 

Patslatt1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
4,086
A few decades ago,Brazilian scientists modified an African grass variety that proved capable of growing in a previously arid part of northeast Brazil covering millions of acres. The grass needs a fertiliser to counter a chemical imbalance in the soil, excessive alkilinity I think. Many of the millions of cattle there are raised in the wild on vast estates.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2019
Messages
98
Colossal cost overruns...is that a good or bad thing in your universe? Where do you put the subsequent radioactive waste? You haven't really thought this out.
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
32,989
Colossal cost overruns...is that a good or bad thing in your universe? Where do you put the subsequent radioactive waste? You haven't really thought this out.
Waste has to be stored, its expensive but it can be done safely as the past 60 years shows. The question is whether we can replace fossil fuels with currently available technology and the answer is that we can if nuclear is included. Its a political choice but its not one that we are prepared to take which is fair enough but to claim that renewables can replace fossil fuels is at best incorrect, at worst, a lie.
 

DJP

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
12,695
Website
darrenjprior.blogspot.com
Twitter
https://twitter.com/DarrenJPrior
A few decades ago,Brazilian scientists modified an African grass variety that proved capable of growing in a previously arid part of northeast Brazil covering millions of acres. The grass needs a fertiliser to counter a chemical imbalance in the soil, excessive alkilinity I think. Many of the millions of cattle there are raised in the wild on vast estates.
If it's an African grass variety that can be grown on arid soil I suppose it's only a matter of time before it is used in Africa on large scale thereby ending desertification there?
 

Watcher2

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
34,307
Brazil's population of 200 million is more than 40 times the Irish Republic's population. According to environmental science expert Cara Augustenborg on Newstalk today, peat burning in Ireland causes as much carbon dioxide emissions in eight years as the rain forest fires in Brazil that have alarmed the world because of the key role of this forest in absorbing global emissions of CO2. Just on those two sets of figures,per head of population Ireland is doing about 5 times more CO2 emissions than Brazil.
Despite this environmental irresponsibility, the Irish government announced it would veto the Mercosur trade agreement with Brazil if it didn't preserve its rain forest. This is a really hypocritical political stance that is largely motivated to protect Irish beef cattle farmers from competition from the trade agreement quota of Brazilian beef. At present, most Brazilian beef cattle are raised in the northeast of Brazil where introduction of an African variety of grass converted millions of arid acres to grassland for cattle.

Before Ireland carries out the threat of a veto on Mercosur, peat burning should be phased out quickly.
I believe (but no expert at all) that the value of the rain forest goes far beyond its carbon sink qualities. Eco systems, food chains, animal, mammal, insect, reptilian displacements etc is probably just as big an impact but does not get as much media attention as the CO2 issue at the moment.
 

shiel

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
17,444
Turf cutting was a small part of out electricity generation and is immediately due for discontinuance.

The bigger question is should we stop beef and dairy production in the whole west of Ireland and import the beef from South America.

The impact of clearing tropical forest, transporting beef thousands of miles has climate change costs.
 

middleground

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
946
Turf cutting was a small part of out electricity generation and is immediately due for discontinuance.

The bigger question is should we stop beef and dairy production in the whole west of Ireland and import the beef from South America.

The impact of clearing tropical forest, transporting beef thousands of miles has climate change costs.
Peat represents around10% to 15% of the energy used to generate electricity and is due for phasing out by 2028 not immediately. The heritage and biodiversity value of peat is more important than the emissions arising from using it.

Would stopping beef and dairy production in the whole west of Ireland result In less exports rather than a need for imports?

https://www.independent.ie/news/environment/plan-to-change-how-electricity-is-produced-and-consumed-here-38228802.html

The target is to achieve 70pc renewable electricity by 2030. This will involve the phasing out of coal and peat-fired electricity generation plants. ESB's Moneypoint plant will close by 2025. Bord na Móna will transition away from peat by 2028.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/why-peat-is-most-damaging-fuel-in-terms-of-global-warming-even-worse-than-coal-1.3674537

Peat was responsible for 3.4 million tonnes of emissions in Ireland during 2016, of which 75 per cent was for electricity and 25 per cent in residential heating (which is about 9 per cent of carbon emissions from total fossil fuel use (including coal, oil, gas and peat). Phasing out that heat component will make a big difference to Ireland’s emissions.

The peat issue was so glaring, the Government’s independent Climate Change Advisory Council repeatedly said Bord na Móna should get out of peat a lot sooner than envisaged, though it underlined the need for “a just transition” for workers and communities affected. Its chairman Prof John FitzGerald has gone further, hitting out at the perverse decision to continue subsidising peat-fired electricity generation stations until 2030 – consumers pay for this through the public service obligation (PSO), a levy added to their electricity bill.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2019
Messages
98
Waste has to be stored, its expensive but it can be done safely as the past 60 years shows. The question is whether we can replace fossil fuels with currently available technology and the answer is that we can if nuclear is included. Its a political choice but its not one that we are prepared to take which is fair enough but to claim that renewables can replace fossil fuels is at best incorrect, at worst, a lie.
Sixty years? It is so dangerous it has to be entombed for countless thousands of years? Damnable form of boiling a kettle.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top