• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please contact us.




Irish pension provision-inadequate long term plans

JacquesHughes

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
1,132
Another thing FF/FG forgot to do- roll out credible pension provision for Ireland's expanding workforce.
60% of Irish private workers have no jobs pension

The UK has been concerned about the prospects of large numbers of ex-workers reaching old age with no preparations, other than an expectation that the welfare State will provide for them. For the last three years it has been an obligation upon employers to offer a pension scheme (registered, legally protected, and supported by employer contributions) to all employees. 'Auto-enrollment' has been very successful-six million workers enrolled.
Six million save automatically for pension - BBC News
The push is now on to enroll the remaining 34% of employees- some of the laggards eg those employing 'nannies', don't even think of themselves as employers. So there's quite a culture shock going on.

Of course Ireland faces particular problems, of misleading GDP figures, and a political culture of self-delusion , so that the true extent of non-employment and welfare dependency is never recognised. As for 'long term planning'- that's not really something a Minister is asked about very often; 'here today, and gone tomorrow', as it were, but, significantly, with a generous pension.
Irish Economy 2013: Half of Ireland's population on welfare
 


cobhguy

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Messages
745
Another thing FF/FG forgot to do- roll out credible pension provision for Ireland's expanding workforce.
60% of Irish private workers have no jobs pension

The UK has been concerned about the prospects of large numbers of ex-workers reaching old age with no preparations, other than an expectation that the welfare State will provide for them. For the last three years it has been an obligation upon employers to offer a pension scheme (registered, legally protected, and supported by employer contributions) to all employees. 'Auto-enrollment' has been very successful-six million workers enrolled.
Six million save automatically for pension - BBC News
The push is now on to enroll the remaining 34% of employees- some of the laggards eg those employing 'nannies', don't even think of themselves as employers. So there's quite a culture shock going on.

Of course Ireland faces particular problems, of misleading GDP figures, and a political culture of self-delusion , so that the true extent of non-employment and welfare dependency is never recognised. As for 'long term planning'- that's not really something a Minister is asked about very often; 'here today, and gone tomorrow', as it were, but, significantly, with a generous pension.
Irish Economy 2013: Half of Ireland's population on welfare
One reason is the fees and value for money pensions are given means for low income tax payers, The people who really need a pension they just are not given the value. I did a quick check on a pension calculator and for a 30 year old saving 50 euro a week (how many low income workers can even afford 50 a week) it would give a pension of 3600 a year on retirement, thats about 70 euro a week.
 

Trainwreck

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
26,809
One reason is the fees and value for money pensions are given means for low income tax payers, The people who really need a pension they just are not given the value. I did a quick check on a pension calculator and for a 30 year old saving 50 euro a week (how many low income workers can even afford 50 a week) it would give a pension of 3600 a year on retirement, thats about 70 euro a week.
It's more like €80 per week (in today's money) for a €50 per week contribution.


But the question one would ask you, or anyone else, is this:

If you save €50 per week for 35 years (30-65), how much would you expect to back in income over an average of 25 years (65-90)?


Where do you think money comes from?
 

Fractional Reserve

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
8,327
One reason is the fees and value for money pensions are given means for low income tax payers, The people who really need a pension they just are not given the value. I did a quick check on a pension calculator and for a 30 year old saving 50 euro a week (how many low income workers can even afford 50 a week) it would give a pension of 3600 a year on retirement, thats about 70 euro a week.
a lot of pension funds are going tits up due to no margin on rates , its a timebomb .
 

hammer

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
58,513
Pension funding for proprietary Directors through a Limited Company is very tax efficient.
 

TheWexfordInn

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2012
Messages
12,144
Another thing FF/FG forgot to do- roll out credible pension provision for Ireland's expanding workforce.
60% of Irish private workers have no jobs pension

The UK has been concerned about the prospects of large numbers of ex-workers reaching old age with no preparations, other than an expectation that the welfare State will provide for them. For the last three years it has been an obligation upon employers to offer a pension scheme (registered, legally protected, and supported by employer contributions) to all employees. 'Auto-enrollment' has been very successful-six million workers enrolled.
Six million save automatically for pension - BBC News
The push is now on to enroll the remaining 34% of employees- some of the laggards eg those employing 'nannies', don't even think of themselves as employers. So there's quite a culture shock going on.

Of course Ireland faces particular problems, of misleading GDP figures, and a political culture of self-delusion , so that the true extent of non-employment and welfare dependency is never recognised. As for 'long term planning'- that's not really something a Minister is asked about very often; 'here today, and gone tomorrow', as it were, but, significantly, with a generous pension.
Irish Economy 2013: Half of Ireland's population on welfare
While in principle the idea of automatically enrolling people into these Pension schemes is a good idea the reality is that the amount of money being paid into these pension schemes is microscopic. It will go nowhere near towards paying a decent income for someone retiring at 65.

The only hope about these schemes is that people will over time get used to the idea of money going from their pay packet into their Pension pots and will over time as a result increase their contributions to a level where a liveable pension income will be generated.
 

cobhguy

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Messages
745
It's more like €80 per week (in today's money) for a €50 per week contribution.


But the question one would ask you, or anyone else, is this:

If you save €50 per week for 35 years (30-65), how much would you expect to back in income over an average of 25 years (65-90)?


Where do you think money comes from?
I mean comparing paying into a pension, comparied to just saving and investing yourself. A low income earner might be better just saving as with the low sums the tax advantages just arnt there.

I pay into a private pension but am lucky my company pays 8% I pay 8% but its tax free so I really am only paying 4% and getting 16% for it. Finance allways seems to favor the most well off and screws the lest well off.
 

hammer

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
58,513
"Finance allways seems to favor the most well off and screws the lest well off"

Slow down.
 

Fractional Reserve

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
8,327
I mean comparing paying into a pension, comparied to just saving and investing yourself. A low income earner might be better just saving as with the low sums the tax advantages just arnt there.

I pay into a private pension but am lucky my company pays 8% I pay 8% but its tax free so I really am only paying 4% and getting 16% for it. Finance allways seems to favor the most well off and screws the lest well off.
thats is always the way, that's life unless we all become communists .Governments in fairness are trying their best to keep low income earners out of the tax net etc , while the middle gets raped to the balls .
 

mk50

Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
34
Just be aware that after saving for many years for your pension the Government may slap a 'levy' on your pension pot.
 

hammer

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
58,513
Just be aware that after saving for many years for your pension the Government may slap a 'levy' on your pension pot.
Good point. Keep an eye on the financial management of the economy at all times.

Especially if FF get to lead.
 

Fractional Reserve

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
8,327
Good point. Keep an eye on the financial management of the economy at all times.

Especially if FF get to lead.
don't be surprised if they come after the lot if there is another major blow up in the economy , they will tell us its for safe keeping .
 

cobhguy

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Messages
745
I am a middle earner and dont think we are screwed for taxs. I saved about 3000 tax last year by saving into my pension and 2,500 in tax from my bonus by taxing shares in the company which must be held for years then can be sold tax free. less any capital gains. Its Free money. I got 600 euro tax refund on my college course while the people in my class who are part time workers or on low income got nothing.
 

hammer

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
58,513
I am a middle earner and dont think we are screwed for taxs. I saved about 3000 tax last year by saving into my pension and 2,500 in tax from my bonus by taxing shares in the company which must be held for years then can be sold tax free. less any capital gains. Its Free money. I got 600 euro tax refund on my college course while the people in my class who are part time workers or on low income got nothing.
49.5% marginal tax rate is high.
 

Fractional Reserve

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
8,327
I am a middle earner and dont think we are screwed for taxs. I saved about 3000 tax last year by saving into my pension and 2,500 in tax from my bonus by taxing shares in the company which must be held for years then can be sold tax free. less any capital gains. Its Free money. I got 600 euro tax refund on my college course while the people in my class who are part time workers or on low income got nothing.
what did you earn and how much tax did you pay , maybe you like paying loads of tax
 

TheWexfordInn

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2012
Messages
12,144
I am a middle earner and dont think we are screwed for taxs. I saved about 3000 tax last year by saving into my pension and 2,500 in tax from my bonus by taxing shares in the company which must be held for years then can be sold tax free. less any capital gains. Its Free money. I got 600 euro tax refund on my college course while the people in my class who are part time workers or on low income got nothing.
The income you are paying into your Pension is taxed, its just that it is taxed when you draw it down after retirement rather than paying it now up front. It is actually a rare example of prudence being demonstrated by our rulers - they are foregoing tax receipts today and bequeathing those tax receipts to whoever is running the country in 30 or whatever years time.
 

New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top