Irish Thatcher required (please attach cv)

HarshBuzz

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mairteenpak said:
We need a directly elected Taoiseach with the power ,derived from the popular vote to choose a cabinet from outside the dail if necessary, (bigger talent pool)
there's some merit in that suggestion - we might actually get Ministers who have an idea what they're doing. I mean look at the current cabinet - is there anyone qualified and experienced in their area? a lawyer running finance, brilliant!

I was recently in the US and noticed also that local democracy in incredibly vibrant compared to here. Certainly something we could learn from - elected judges, police chiefs, mayors, sanitation commissioners etc
 


Tiernanator

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HarshBuzz said:
Tiernanator said:
Both Raygun and Thatcher put the boot into working class communities. Cut spending on essential services and increased spending on non-essential services such as killing people in foreign countries and propping up facist dictatorships throughout the globe. So your talking about a happy-clappy nice Thatcher for us. It would not work for Ireland. Irish people are by nature wary of extremes and a Thatcher like figure would have to be a policy extremist.
I don't want an extremist (they'd never get elected anyway as you correctly point out), just a leader with the vision and balls to get the right things done for the country as a whole.

I am purely talking domestic politics here, obviously no Taoiseach is going to be invading Iraq, Nicaragua or the Falklands!

I notice you didn't answer my previous question
I
 

Tiernanator

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HarshBuzz said:
Tiernanator said:
Both Raygun and Thatcher put the boot into working class communities. Cut spending on essential services and increased spending on non-essential services such as killing people in foreign countries and propping up facist dictatorships throughout the globe. So your talking about a happy-clappy nice Thatcher for us. It would not work for Ireland. Irish people are by nature wary of extremes and a Thatcher like figure would have to be a policy extremist.
I don't want an extremist (they'd never get elected anyway as you correctly point out), just a leader with the vision and balls to get the right things done for the country as a whole.

I am purely talking domestic politics here, obviously no Taoiseach is going to be invading Iraq, Nicaragua or the Falklands!

I notice you didn't answer my previous question
I actually do agree with you on the vision and guts to make difficult decisions. However the democratic system lends itself to managerialism and not dictatorship. Thatcher was a dictator but she forgot that those around her also thought they had better ideas than her. Ireland needs a political system that has proper representation from all walks of Irish life. Unfortunately the system of "me da was TD so I am going to be TD" is not providing us with the leadership needed in these difficult economic times. However I am not convinced that a right wing figure such as Thatcher would be the solution to our ills. Instead I think that we should think of our political parties along the lines of candidates in job interviews to run our own personal business. I think if we did this then we might make the decisions that would both help ourselves and our nation.

We don't need a Thatcher we just need a really good manager (Taoiseach) and a team (ministers and functioning, inventive civil service) that will implement agreed policies on time and within budget. It is not rocket science you know. The civil service is the key to good governance and Maggie Thatcher lived to rue the day that she crossed swords with the Old Boys network that is the British Civil Service. Our civil service needs to ditch the old methods and bring in new blood from business and other walks of life to push forward an agreed agenda for change and for stability. It is obvious that this idea is outside the mainframe as regards the Irish state. I believe that a mixed strong economy is the best and most stable and that extremes while in the short term successful always end up causing as many problems as they solve.
 

Podolski

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We've already had 25 years of Irish Thatcherism. What we need now is an Irish Chavez.
 

DOD

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No thank you, one Thatcher was bad enough.
 

HarshBuzz

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DOD said:
No thank you, one Thatcher was bad enough.
what do you suggest instead? happy with the status quo, are you?
 

Sligoboy

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mairteenpak said:
We need a directly elected Taoiseach with the power ,derived from the popular vote to choose a cabinet from outside the dail if necessary, (bigger talent pool)

Who are equally beholden (in fact much more so) to the corporate financing they receive, much like Bush and every president since Roosevelt.

No thanks, we have enough problems with politically compromised parties without the Taoiseach becoming an extension of Board room policy of Sir Tony etc etc

What happens in America is the Dems and Republicans advance the policies best suited to their most prevalent backers. Society at large is left out of the decision making process almost entirely.
 

Tiernanator

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Podolski said:
We've already had 25 years of Irish Thatcherism. What we need now is an Irish Chavez.
While I admire much about Chavez there will be no doubt an outcome to his policies that proves again the idea that extremes do not work. Namely he and loads of his supporters will probably end up disappeared in a US inspired coup. This will not serve the interest of the working class and therefore moderation from Chavez could actually do more in the longer term for those he so obviously wants to help. I agree with you Podolski about Irish Thatcherism. We never needed it. The poor in our society are worse off now than at the start of the so-called panacea to all our ills "the celtic tiger". The wealth of the few not the welfare of the many is a blight on our society and an injustice that cannot be argued away with the old "wealth creators" myth.
 

HarshBuzz

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Tiernanator said:
I agree with you Podolski about Irish Thatcherism. We never needed it. The poor in our society are worse off now than at the start of the so-called panacea to all our ills "the celtic tiger". The wealth of the few not the welfare of the many is a blight on our society and an injustice that cannot be argued away with the old "wealth creators" myth.
Don't like dragging the thread off-course but I really have to question this; just look at the unemployment stats now and then and you'll see there's no comparison.

Also, if the poor are so much worse off, why are they not voting for 'workers parties', such as your own? :?
 

Kerrygold

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Aindriu said:
st333ve said:
Sure why dont you just invite another Cromwell, according to our neighbours he was also a great leader :roll:
I take it you haven't seen the report then about an English historian writing a new book about Cromwell's time? She says that what Cromwell did in Ireland was very wrong and could not be justified. Just because some donut put up a statue of him does not mean the English like him.
You're joking? Wasn't he recently voted the greatest Briton ever. :roll:
 

HarshBuzz

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Kerrygold said:
You're joking? Wasn't he recently voted the greatest Briton ever. :roll:
jaysis, who cares about some figure from ancient history? :roll:
 

Daithi37

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Think of the savings

Irish Language gone
Farm Grants and subsidies gone
Health Insurance for all with the premiums paid by the state for the poor. Health Care to become part of our Export Sector by tendering and winning work on foreign patients as well as our own, through treatment purchase schemes for other nations. Ditto dental care.

Third level education funded by loan scheme.
Second level provide for more online classes and resources.
Performance review in Education Sack the bottom 20% of teachers and increase class sizes.
Defence reduce the army by 80% train more officers on short service commissions and a 30,000 volunteer citizen army
Set up an Irish foreign Legion to be hired out for peace keeping. Staff recruited at the Circuit Courts for felonious offences.

Development aid to be expanded by 1000% but in return for concessions on natural resources, construction contracts, etc.
Abolish Stamp duty
10% CGT on sale of the principal residence
Corporation tax 5%
More cost effective prisons. Seal prisons to make them drug free.
Tendering for all local authority works

Invest some of the Pensions reserve in a proper national road network

Become self sufficient in Renewable energy

A tax on borrowed money to be increased as ECB rates fall

Build new State of the Art Cities from scratch planned for 21 century living.

A new Green card emigration system, where the talented can make a new life in Ireland. Duck out all failed asylum seekers
I like this. Who are you? This is perfect!!! When do we set up?
 

Alliance

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Kerrygold said:
Aindriu said:
st333ve said:
Sure why dont you just invite another Cromwell, according to our neighbours he was also a great leader :roll:
I take it you haven't seen the report then about an English historian writing a new book about Cromwell's time? She says that what Cromwell did in Ireland was very wrong and could not be justified. Just because some donut put up a statue of him does not mean the English like him.
You're joking? Wasn't he recently voted the greatest Briton ever. :roll:
so? whats your point? Should the english have to consult with the irish to get their consent as to who they admire? Honestly, the smugness of some people makes me sick. Over here people who murdered englishmen and who aspired to murder englishmen are venerated as virtual saints. collins, dev, pearse et al. it's all subjective sh*t. get over yerself.
 

atlantic

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what you say is spot on,and i agree totally, but the level of Begrudgery in Ireland is savage they would never get elected.

Aindriu said:
What we could do with is some very successful business people going into politics. What we have at the moment is a Daíl full of school teachers and lawyers - not a business brain amongst them.
 

Tiernanator

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HarshBuzz said:
Tiernanator said:
I agree with you Podolski about Irish Thatcherism. We never needed it. The poor in our society are worse off now than at the start of the so-called panacea to all our ills "the celtic tiger". The wealth of the few not the welfare of the many is a blight on our society and an injustice that cannot be argued away with the old "wealth creators" myth.
Don't like dragging the thread off-course but I really have to question this; just look at the unemployment stats now and then and you'll see there's no comparison.

Also, if the poor are so much worse off, why are they not voting for 'workers parties', such as your own? :?
The wealth gap which as a social democrat is my personal indicator for a healthy fair society shows that the poorest are worse off now. Minimum wages jobs are not good for society,the economy or for those who have to live on them. The myth of wealth creators being the lynchpin in the economy is just that a myth. If they were the answers to all our ills then the capitalist system would have ironed out the "kinks" years ago and we would have stability in our economy and the world market. The crisis in the system shows that capitalism while dynamic cannot fix all the world's ills. The initial thread about an Irish Thatcher figure in my opinion seems to be suggesting that hard right anti-working class monetarist policies solves all the woes of the economy. Thatcherism and Raygunism proved that they do not. There is such a thing as society.
 
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Kerrygold said:
Aindriu said:
st333ve said:
Sure why dont you just invite another Cromwell, according to our neighbours he was also a great leader :roll:
I take it you haven't seen the report then about an English historian writing a new book about Cromwell's time? She says that what Cromwell did in Ireland was very wrong and could not be justified. Just because some donut put up a statue of him does not mean the English like him.
You're joking? Wasn't he recently voted the greatest Briton ever. :roll:
I don't think so, Winston Churchill was voted the greatest Briton in a BBC poll, but that was in 2002.

The reason there is a statue of Cromwell outside the Palace of Westminster is because he helped establish the principle that Parliament was more powerful than the Monarch. Not due to any personal fondness by the people.
 

DOD

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HarshBuzz said:
DOD said:
No thank you, one Thatcher was bad enough.
what do you suggest instead? happy with the status quo, are you?
No, but you don't solve a problem by bringing in someone even worse than what you have now. Most of our government are like Mini Thatcher's as it is. That's what has us in the mess we're in today.
 

HarshBuzz

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DOD said:
HarshBuzz said:
No, but you don't solve a problem by bringing in someone even worse than what you have now. Most of our government are like Mini Thatcher's as it is. That's what has us in the mess we're in today.
Mini Thatchers! :shock:

lol, I wish, they're sheep in the main, spineless yes-men/women. Not one of them had the balls to stand up over Bertie's corruption
 

DOD

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HarshBuzz said:
Tiernanator said:
I agree with you Podolski about Irish Thatcherism. We never needed it. The poor in our society are worse off now than at the start of the so-called panacea to all our ills "the celtic tiger". The wealth of the few not the welfare of the many is a blight on our society and an injustice that cannot be argued away with the old "wealth creators" myth.
Don't like dragging the thread off-course but I really have to question this; just look at the unemployment stats now and then and you'll see there's no comparison.

Also, if the poor are so much worse off, why are they not voting for 'workers parties', such as your own? :?
Actually, while I don't want to get into the argument about whether SF are committed to workers rights, polls repeatedly show that a lot of poorer people and working class people do vote for them. The problem is that a lot are so pissed off with politicians speaking out of both sides of their mouth, that they don't vote at all.
 

DOD

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HarshBuzz said:
DOD said:
HarshBuzz said:
No, but you don't solve a problem by bringing in someone even worse than what you have now. Most of our government are like Mini Thatcher's as it is. That's what has us in the mess we're in today.
Mini Thatchers! :shock:

lol, I wish, they're sheep in the main, spineless yes-men/women. Not one of them had the balls to stand up over Bertie's corruption
You've lost me, do you mean to tell me you think Thatcher was anti-corruption? My god, you really were brainwashed.
 


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