• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please contact us.



Irish Times writer's complacency about voracious public sector pay and pensions

patslatt

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
13,693
Quote from http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/seven-myths-about-the-public-sector-pay-differential-1.2650612 :
-------
It is claimed the OECD states our teachers are the best paid in the world and that public servants’ salaries compare very well internationally.

The assertion ignores Ireland’s high wages and cost of living compared with Mexico, Poland, Chile, etc.

Irish public servants’ pay is nothing remarkable compared to Irish wages; the OECD states that even teachers unaffected by pay inequality earn 80 per cent of what similarly qualified professionals in Ireland earn.

The OECD report did not include new entrant salaries, which would drive Ireland’s average down significantly.

The living wage in Ireland is €391 per week after tax. A new entrant garda earns a weekly net of €377.50.
-------

The Irish Times writer disingenuously doesn't mention that Ireland's high cost of living is also suffered by private sector workers on lower wages than the public sector. Based on CSO stats from the Irish government, public sector wages including gardai, teachers and nurse were 48% more than the private sector average pay about two years ago. In the UK, the public sector pay is only 13% higher and workers can be sacked, unlike Ireland's jobs for life like tenured professors. In France and Germany, public sector pay is lower than the private sector and in Denmark where everyone seems to want a public sector job, it is way lower.

He failed to mention a survey showing teachers' pay is the highest of all salaried professions in Ireland.If questioned, he would probably point to pay of self employed professionals which isn't included in stats.

Self employed professionals are subject to a lot of risk, going by the fact that most new business startups fail after five years. Even in the relatively safe legal profession, a minority of maybe 20% make most of the legal industry fees.

He ignores the huge unfunded public sector pension entitlements which could bankrupt the state. If an investment fund were set up to fund these entitlements instead of paying them out of current taxes, the fund would need about €120 billion-about treble the bank bailout of about €40 billion.

Irish public sector pensions rise with the pay of the job once held,a perc enjoyed by no other EU country public sector. He also fails to compare the Garda pensions of €35,000 a year for all ranks with the admittedly low salaries of new entrants to the force.
 


SeanieFitz

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
12,225
Quote from Seven myths about the public sector pay differential :
-------
It is claimed the OECD states our teachers are the best paid in the world and that public servants’ salaries compare very well internationally.

The assertion ignores Ireland’s high wages and cost of living compared with Mexico, Poland, Chile, etc.

Irish public servants’ pay is nothing remarkable compared to Irish wages; the OECD states that even teachers unaffected by pay inequality earn 80 per cent of what similarly qualified professionals in Ireland earn.

The OECD report did not include new entrant salaries, which would drive Ireland’s average down significantly.

The living wage in Ireland is €391 per week after tax. A new entrant garda earns a weekly net of €377.50.
-------

The Irish Times writer disingenuously doesn't mention that Ireland's high cost of living is also suffered by private sector workers on lower wages than the public sector. Based on CSO stats from the Irish government, public sector wages including gardai, teachers and nurse were 48% more than the private sector average pay about two years ago. In the UK, the public sector pay is only 13% higher and workers can be sacked, unlike Ireland's jobs for life like tenured professors. In France and Germany, public sector pay is lower than the private sector and in Denmark where everyone seems to want a public sector job, it is way lower.

He failed to mention a survey showing teachers' pay is the highest of all salaried professions in Ireland.If questioned, he would probably point to pay of self employed professionals which isn't included in stats.

Self employed professionals are subject to a lot of risk, going by the fact that most new business startups fail after five years. Even in the relatively safe legal profession, a minority of maybe 20% make most of the legal industry fees.

He ignores the huge unfunded public sector pension entitlements which could bankrupt the state. If an investment fund were set up to fund these entitlements instead of paying them out of current taxes, the fund would need about €120 billion-about treble the bank bailout of about €40 billion.

Irish public sector pensions rise with the pay of the job once held,a perc enjoyed by no other EU country public sector. He also fails to compare the Garda pensions of €35,000 a year for all ranks with the admittedly low salaries of new entrants to the force.
anyone, anyone..............don't leave Pat hanging (not literally), he has a target of 20,000 anti PS posts!
 

Levellers

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
14,171
The Irish Times writer disingenuously doesn't mention that Ireland's high cost of living is also suffered by private sector workers on lower wages than the public sector. Based on CSO stats from the Irish government, public sector wages including gardai, teachers and nurse were 48% more than the private sector average pay about two years ago. In the UK, the public sector pay is only 13% higher and workers can be sacked, unlike Ireland's jobs for life like tenured professors. In France and Germany, public sector pay is lower than the private sector and in Denmark where everyone seems to want a public sector job, it is way lower.
Is that why the private hospitals have 100% nurse enrolment whilst the public service hospitals can't fill their posts?

And where does this notion come from that PS workers can't be sacked?
 

stakerwallace

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
13,434
Yawn: must ring up my former employer (ps) and check on the old pension payments
 

Analyzer

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
46,201
The ISIS Times has produced a litany of complacency.

Before the housing crisis, they went full throttle on theory that more expensive hpusing would make everybodu rich.

Dan McLoughlin cheered on increased borrowing, as debt levels became unsustainable.

Then the sticky stuff hit the fan.

And The ISIS Times rolled out a very round Mr. Suds to tell us all the solution was taxpayer funded bailouts.

At this stage The ISIS Times has become a comic for those who wish to pretend they are posh & spphisticated.
 

alloverbartheshouting

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2010
Messages
7,937
Quote from Seven myths about the public sector pay differential :
-------
It is claimed the OECD states our teachers are the best paid in the world and that public servants’ salaries compare very well internationally.

The assertion ignores Ireland’s high wages and cost of living compared with Mexico, Poland, Chile, etc.

Irish public servants’ pay is nothing remarkable compared to Irish wages; the OECD states that even teachers unaffected by pay inequality earn 80 per cent of what similarly qualified professionals in Ireland earn.

The OECD report did not include new entrant salaries, which would drive Ireland’s average down significantly.

The living wage in Ireland is €391 per week after tax. A new entrant garda earns a weekly net of €377.50.
-------

The Irish Times writer disingenuously doesn't mention that Ireland's high cost of living is also suffered by private sector workers on lower wages than the public sector. Based on CSO stats from the Irish government, public sector wages including gardai, teachers and nurse were 48% more than the private sector average pay about two years ago. In the UK, the public sector pay is only 13% higher and workers can be sacked, unlike Ireland's jobs for life like tenured professors. In France and Germany, public sector pay is lower than the private sector and in Denmark where everyone seems to want a public sector job, it is way lower.

He failed to mention a survey showing teachers' pay is the highest of all salaried professions in Ireland.If questioned, he would probably point to pay of self employed professionals which isn't included in stats.

Self employed professionals are subject to a lot of risk, going by the fact that most new business startups fail after five years. Even in the relatively safe legal profession, a minority of maybe 20% make most of the legal industry fees.

He ignores the huge unfunded public sector pension entitlements which could bankrupt the state. If an investment fund were set up to fund these entitlements instead of paying them out of current taxes, the fund would need about €120 billion-about treble the bank bailout of about €40 billion.

Irish public sector pensions rise with the pay of the job once held,a perc enjoyed by no other EU country public sector. He also fails to compare the Garda pensions of €35,000 a year for all ranks with the admittedly low salaries of new entrants to the force.
Other than the article you disagree with, have you any links?
 

patslatt

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
13,693
Is that why the private hospitals have 100% nurse enrolment whilst the public service hospitals can't fill their posts?

And where does this notion come from that PS workers can't be sacked?
Private sector hospitals pay the same nursing wages but haven't got high stress A&E departments. The stress comes from understaffing caused by very high wages and pension costs, about 40% higher than UK nurses pay according to the OECD based on ppp US$ figures.

Have you heard about cautious parents recommending the permanent, pensionable job in the civil service?
 

making waves

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
19,323
Private sector hospitals pay the same nursing wages but haven't got high stress A&E departments. The stress comes from understaffing caused by very high wages and pension costs, about 40% higher than UK nurses pay according to the OECD based on ppp US$ figures.
The understaffing is caused by the fact that the Irish governments spent decades giving the rich tax breaks and subsidies and then their gambling went belly-up the the Irish government spent tens of billions bailing out the gambling debts.

As for Irish nurses - large numbers are leaving on a regular basis to work in the UK (the daughter of my next door neighbour turned down three nursing jobs in Ireland to move to the UK because she had zero intention of working in the Irish health system once she was qualified) - and when the Irish government attempted to bribe them to come back nobody was interested.
 

jas376

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 24, 2013
Messages
327
Private sector hospitals pay the same nursing wages but haven't got high stress A&E departments. The stress comes from understaffing caused by very high wages and pension costs, about 40% higher than UK nurses pay according to the OECD based on ppp US$ figures.

Have you heard about cautious parents recommending the permanent, pensionable job in the civil service?
Pat, could you post up a link to support your claim that Irish nurses are paid 40% more than their UK counterparts.
 

alloverbartheshouting

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2010
Messages
7,937
I'm bored with repeating links. Google OECD and CSO.
Why the tone? I think it perfectly fair that any OP'er is asked to back up his or her assertions. Otherwise, how can a topic be discussed accurately?
 

making waves

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
19,323
Pat, could you post up a link to support your claim that Irish nurses are paid 40% more than their UK counterparts.
They aren't - as usual pat is making sh*t up.

But the more important point is that most health professional who move to the UK do so because of shorter working hours, higher staff levels, better opportunities for training and better conditions of employment.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top