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Irish universities' global rankings in Times survey

patslatt

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See https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2016/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/25/sort_by/rank_label/sort_order/asc/cols/rank_only

The ranking of two Irish universities in the top 200 out of 800 world class universities surveyed is probably acceptable if allowance is made for population of advanced western economies which dominate the top rankings. The EU advanced countries as well as the US, Canada and Australia have total populations of around 650 millions and with Ireland's population 0.6% of that, Ireland could be expected to have 0.6% of the 800 or 5 universities ranked. Of those 5, one quarter or only one could be expected to make the top 200 quartile ranking and one in each of the other quartiles.

Actual rankings were a lot better: two in the top quartile ranking,TCD no.160 and UCD 176; three in the second highest second quartile, Galway U 251-300 range, Cork U and Maynooth U both in 351 to 400 range; two in the third quartile,DCU 401 to 500 range and Limerick U 501 to 600; and one in the fourth quartile, DIT 601 to 800.

An interesting question is the importance of elite universities. US private universities like Harvard have very generous trust funds that enable them to attract a very high percentage of scholarship students as well as top professors. Although those "Ivy League" universities educate a small minority of students, they rank at the top globally. California's state system of public universities used to be able to compete with them when it was well funded decades ago. Canadian universities which are public but charge relatively high fees by Irish standards also rank highly although they are not exclusive in admissions policy. French universities don't charge fees but a very large share of university funding is given to its elite Grand Ecoles whose global rankings do not compare favourably with the US and UK elite universities.

The lesson for Ireland is that proper funding through tuition fees is necessary for high quality universities. If the funding isn't available, the government should focus funding on the best performing departments in the university and IT college system, even it that means letting competing departments decline or close down for lack of funding.
 
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Carlos Danger

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For the uninitiated...

[video=youtube;IjOv7rxxBBs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjOv7rxxBBs[/video]
 

Accidental sock

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That's alot of words.

I'm several years out of University, so I'm not reading that if I don't have to.
 

Idigress

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1. Directly linking population to performance isn't credible. There are far too many exceptions to the rule: Australia outperforms Germany, for instance. A closer correlation is with GDP per capita.

2. The threshold for UK fees only increased above £3k recently, since when UK universities have marginally declined across the rankings. Their reputations derive from when UK fees were roughly the same as Ireland's.
 

JCR

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I don't see any reason we should not strive to have the best universities in the world.

If all those corps are getting such lovely sweetheart deals to be here why don't we be extra cheeky and make investment in their future staff part of the deal?
 

Mercurial

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A high quality university and a highly ranked university are not the same things. A university may be far down on the rankings list while still providing students with excellent education and opportunities, depending on the field in question.
 

Mercurial

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The kind of university that would be so distracted by requirements to increase the diversity of their students as to neglect research and teaching is probably not the kind of university that would have ended up highly ranked in the first place.

(Alan Smithers, to whom these comments are attributed, appears to have a record of being critical of these kinds of efforts more generally)
 
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Idigress

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The kind of university that would be so distracted by requirements to increase the diversity of their students as to neglect research and teaching is probably not the kind of university that would have ended up highly ranked in the first place.

(Alan Smithers, to whom these comments are attributed, appears to have a record of being critical of these kinds of efforts more generally)
What's more, those diversity efforts are focused on undergraduate admissions, while the rankings primarily reflect research output.
 

A Voice

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I was surprised to learn that one third of Harvard's money comes from the state. So-called private colleges in the US still benefit to a considerable extent from the public purse. Though obviously they have massive private endowments as well.
 

Idigress

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I was surprised to learn that one third of Harvard's money comes from the state. So-called private colleges in the US still benefit to a considerable extent from the public purse. Though obviously they have massive private endowments as well.
I presume that figure includes research grants from various government bodies, though - i.e. not direct funding.
 

bokuden

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I was surprised to learn that one third of Harvard's money comes from the state. So-called private colleges in the US still benefit to a considerable extent from the public purse. Though obviously they have massive private endowments as well.
Doesn't surprise me in the least. All neo liberals live off the state when it comes down to it. Capitalism cannot exist without widescale state support. This is its inherent contradiction.
 

Half Nelson

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NUIG does surprisingly well - ahead of Cork, Limerick, Maynooth & DCU.
 

EUrJokingMeRight

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Irelands third level sector has been on a downward spiral for nigh on 30 years.

Our standards have fallen so low comparatively and the majority output from these universities is nothing short of disappointing.

Few students have the intelligence to implement their intelligence in the real world after uni. Most can regurgitate what they've been taught and they go no further than that.

Monkeys etc.
 

EUrJokingMeRight

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The kind of university that would be so distracted by requirements to increase the diversity of their students as to neglect research and teaching is probably not the kind of university that would have ended up highly ranked in the first place.

(Alan Smithers, to whom these comments are attributed, appears to have a record of being critical of these kinds of efforts more generally)
Any 'Educational' institution that puts education second really does deserve to be wound down immediately. I agree with you there. Completely unethical to ignore their primary directive.
 

Polybius

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If we want to improve Irish universities then all this gender studies and sociology crap needs to be scrapped.
 

Idigress

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If we want to improve Irish universities then all this gender studies and sociology crap needs to be scrapped.
Eh...do actually think that scrapping the very small minority of sociology courses will improve Irish universities?
 

silverharp

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one reason why US colleges are out of control cost wise is that they depend on fees and have gov. backed student loans . State funded universities are less likely to be given huge increases year on year.

Start defunding degrees like Business studies, accounting , journalism and media stuff and make people pay if they value them otherwise. they are all purely vocational stuff and companies can pay their own trainees to study, less is more.
 

Volatire

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An appalling result for Irish Universities. Shameful.

I blame managerial incompetence, arrogance, and extremely poor academic hiring practices.

Irish universities, sadly, are stuffed full of tenured idiots who can neither teach nor do research, administered by toadying public servants entirely focussed on feathering their own nests.
 

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