Is a domestic abortion industry viable in a small marketplace like Ireland?

Congalltee

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There are about 4000 women going annually to England, another 1000*, risking 14 years imprisonment, by getting a pill in the post. That's not much of a market, given the challlanges e.g. insurance, protests, security, recruitment.

The "pro-life movement" believe that domestic abortions will rise if it's legally available here, but surely there must be a ceiling of 8000 per year?

Currently, the State is exercising a monopoly on abortions and it will be difficult to break down that barrier. I assume insurance companies won't cover the costs.

An example of fees here:
https://www.mariestopes.org.uk/overseas-clients-abortion/irish/costs-payment-how-book/fees-how-much-abortion-irish-women

A) how can Ms Stopes charge a different rate for overseas customers? (Is that not contrary to free movement principles)
B) I assume the UK will remain an attractive option for a surgical abortion than the possibility of meeting people one might know at a clinic?
C) how much would the professional indemnity insurance be for an abortionist in Ireland?

Is there any point in getting into this as a business?



* number of pills seized http://www.independent.ie/tablet/news/medics-warn-of-dangers-as-1000-abortion-pills-seized-this-year-30697579.html

** the U.K. performs 185,000 abortions per year, which on a population comparator, gives us an end market cap of 14,500 abortions per year in Ireland. That might provide a sound business case.
 
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petaljam

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There are about 4000 women going annually to England, another 1000, risking 14 years imprisonment, by getting a pill in the post. That's not much of a market, given the challlanges e.g. insurance, protests, security, recruitment.

The "pro-life movement" believe that domestic abortions will rise if it's legally available here, but surely there must be a ceiling of 8000 per year?

Currently, the State is exercising a monopoly on abortions and it will be difficult to break down that barrier. I assume insurance companies won't cover the costs.

An example of fees here:
https://www.mariestopes.org.uk/overseas-clients-abortion/irish/costs-payment-how-book/fees-how-much-abortion-irish-women

A) how can Ms Stopes charge a different rate for overseas customers? (Is that not contrary to free movement principles)
B) I assume the UK will remain an attractive option for a surgical abortion than the possibility of meeting people one might know at a clinic?
C) how much would the professional indemnity insurance be for an abortionist in Ireland?

Is there any point in getting into this as a business?
1) I don't know but I assume it's to do with there being some sort of charity aspect or because it's a medical service rather than a service like selling clothes.

2) I'm certain that's true for those who can afford it.

3) I imagine that depends on whether they are felt to be subject to physical attack as in the US or not.

On your more general point, this idea that abortion has to be a profit-making service is a pro life thing - there's no reason why it should not be available in or even restricted to public hospitals. In France it's part of all gynecological services in general hospitals. So there's no such thing as an "abortion clinic".

That also means the personnel are less likely to be subject to the sort of attacks that have happened in the US so for that reason alone I think it probably needs to be included in general Obs-Gyne departments, rather than standalone clinics.
 

Congalltee

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1) I don't know but I assume it's to do with there being some sort of charity aspect or because it's a medical service rather than a service like selling clothes.

2) I'm certain that's true for those who can afford it.

3) I imagine that depends on whether they are felt to be subject to physical attack as in the US or not.

On your more general point, this idea that abortion has to be a profit-making service is a pro life thing - there's no reason why it should not be available in or even restricted to public hospitals. In France it's part of all gynecological services in general hospitals. So there's no such thing as an "abortion clinic".

That also means the personnel are less likely to be subject to the sort of attacks that have happened in the US so for that reason alone I think it probably needs to be included in general Obs-Gyne departments, rather than standalone clinics.
Excellent points.
 
D

Deleted member 17573

1) I don't know but I assume it's to do with there being some sort of charity aspect or because it's a medical service rather than a service like selling clothes.

2) I'm certain that's true for those who can afford it.

3) I imagine that depends on whether they are felt to be subject to physical attack as in the US or not.

On your more general point, this idea that abortion has to be a profit-making service is a pro life thing - there's no reason why it should not be available in or even restricted to public hospitals. In France it's part of all gynecological services in general hospitals. So there's no such thing as an "abortion clinic".

That also means the personnel are less likely to be subject to the sort of attacks that have happened in the US so for that reason alone I think it probably needs to be included in general Obs-Gyne departments, rather than standalone clinics.
Perfect - the child will be born while the mother is waiting to be admitted.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Your hurler there is committing a foul by proposing to throw the sliothar at the goal, Gerhard.
 

Congalltee

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Perfect - the child will be born while the mother is waiting to be admitted.
Given the cost to the HSE budget, caused by the birth of children; I'd imagine they will adopt an early pill and purge approach. If the unwanted pregnancy is later than 9-14 weeks, that will add to the cost. The Hse needs to avoid a moral hazard by making abortions as easy as morning after pill or contraceptives. That would be hard to achieve. But not possible.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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But to the subject I maintain that even if abortion on demand were made available tomorrow in Ireland most women seeking to access the service would still go abroad if only for the fear of records being nicked and publicised in Ireland by anti-abortion activists or being photographed and outed by same activists if the clinic was in Dublin, Cork etc.

Going abroad pretty much covers the anonymity angle.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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The issue will be academic soon anyway with the advent of the safe abortificient pill which can be taken at home.

Clinics will probably be a proposition of the past soon enough.
 

talkingshop

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There are about 4000 women going annually to England, another 1000, risking 14 years imprisonment, by getting a pill in the post. That's not much of a market, given the challlanges e.g. insurance, protests, security, recruitment.

The "pro-life movement" believe that domestic abortions will rise if it's legally available here, but surely there must be a ceiling of 8000 per year?

Currently, the State is exercising a monopoly on abortions and it will be difficult to break down that barrier. I assume insurance companies won't cover the costs.

An example of fees here:
https://www.mariestopes.org.uk/overseas-clients-abortion/irish/costs-payment-how-book/fees-how-much-abortion-irish-women

A) how can Ms Stopes charge a different rate for overseas customers? (Is that not contrary to free movement principles)
B) I assume the UK will remain an attractive option for a surgical abortion than the possibility of meeting people one might know at a clinic?
C) how much would the professional indemnity insurance be for an abortionist in Ireland?

Is there any point in getting into this as a business?
I don't see why abortion as a matter of choice should be state funded at all.
 

Congalltee

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I don't see why abortion as a matter of choice should be state funded at all.
That's very short term thinking.
An unwanted sprog, will cost the state a small fortune in child benefit, free crèche, education, health, college (obviously a wanted and loved child costs the same but at least it is wanted). Obviously, abortions would have to be on the medical card but there's no reason to charge others. Keep it simple and price out the abortion industry by maintaining a state subsidised monopoly.
 

petaljam

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Perfect - the child will be born while the mother is waiting to be admitted.
Have to laugh at people who think it's perfectly acceptable for a woman to be forced to wait until overworked staff at a public hospital notice that she's tipped over from 49% risk of dying to 51% risk - a level of recklessness that would probably get someone struck off elsewhere - but still insist that a public hospital can't possibly cope with what is normal practice in the rest of Europe, whereas private facilities could.
 

PBP voter

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The issue will be academic soon anyway with the advent of the safe abortificient pill which can be taken at home.

Clinics will probably be a proposition of the past soon enough.
Not really. Some women will choose to murder their baby at 23 weeks for example. A pill won't be able to do that safely at home.
 

RodShaft

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That's very short term thinking.
An unwanted sprog, will cost the state a small fortune in child benefit, free crèche, education, health, college (obviously a wanted and loved child costs the same but at least it is wanted). Obviously, abortions would have to be on the medical card but there's no reason to charge others. Keep it simple and price out the abortion industry by maintaining a state subsidised monopoly.
What about the rest of us?


NHS style healthcare for healthy women looking to kill the lifeform growing in their wombs, but privatised go fukk yourself if you don't have money healthcare for the ill.
 

talkingshop

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That's very short term thinking.
An unwanted sprog, will cost the state a small fortune in child benefit, free crèche, education, health, college (obviously a wanted and loved child costs the same but at least it is wanted). Obviously, abortions would have to be on the medical card but there's no reason to charge others. Keep it simple and price out the abortion industry by maintaining a state subsidised monopoly.
What good is the state having a monopoly on something if it is not charging for it?
 

Congalltee

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What about the rest of us?


NHS style healthcare for healthy women looking to kill the lifeform growing in their wombs, but privatised go fukk yourself if you don't have money healthcare for the ill.
A health service should be targeted at the healthy and health. Medical cards, insurance and hard cash can accommodate the ill.
 

Congalltee

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Normally all they can think about is the other end.
What on are you on about?
Even for an obsessed closet case, that is an odd statement.
- you have insight into what homosexuals think about.
- you add the descriptor rebated to normality.
- youre referring to the other end of abortion? (You've lost me there)
 


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