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Is America Falling Apart?


benroe

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2011
Messages
10,407
Depends how you set your bar. The 36,000 per annum figure is likely to be derived from counting the hundreds of millions below a poverty line in the world that looks far different to the poverty line in Ireland or Europe generally.

If expectations are that people will be very helpful for the next calculation so we can squeeze a hundred million or two more in that bottom end so that there's room to squeeze in a new billionaire or two at the top and keep the average still around 36,500 then I'm sure they'll be obliged.

Personally I'm a little disappointed that after 300 or so years of the white heat of technology plus the energy expended on the trickle down theory of wealth make the putative trickle indeed look like a trickle. You'd imagine we'd have done a little better by now in applying all this heat and light to be able to provide shelter, food for the world.

Mind you that would affect the share prices of many food manufacturers and processors so even if it were possible it probably wouldn't be allowed.
Obviously those half a billion or so on less than a dollar a day will bring down the average.
 

LISTOWEL MAN

Well-known member
Joined
May 14, 2013
Messages
11,391
i see the trump hating celebrities got caught again

not sex abuse this time though .. they were buying their kids way into college
 

Shiloh

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Joined
Sep 12, 2008
Messages
323
I see Donald has called Irish people "brutal enemies". How can we give this man a bowl of shamrock? Oliver Cromwell wasn't as direct
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
26,063
Twitter
No
Don't think the bowl of shamrock is a personal gift to any particular president- as presidents tend to be more temporary than most such traditions.

It might be mildly concerning if Trump had any intellectual clout.
 

toughbutfair

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Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
9,744
I see Donald has called Irish people "brutal enemies". How can we give this man a bowl of shamrock? Oliver Cromwell wasn't as direct
The gift is for the president of the USA , a fantastic achievement for a little island of no importance . It isn’t a gift for Donald Trump.
 

toughbutfair

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toughbutfair

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May 28, 2009
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9,744
Yes it has been going on for decades, and I too expect America to remain an economic powerhouse, which means the chasm between the wealthy and the rest is just going to grow ever wider, because there is no political will to address it.
And the GOP's decades long "tax is a dirty word" election winning strategy is a major contributor.

Look at the countries that are healthiest and live longest, prosperous and economically strong like America, but much more equitable, the primary reason is that they are mature about tax and how tax is properly and sensibly spent.
Mature on tax means their outlook is similar to yours ?
 

toughbutfair

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May 28, 2009
Messages
9,744
I'd love if someone could point out a time when the US, or any other country for that matter, was united in love and fraternity!

Gore-Bush, Clinton's era, Reagan-Carter, Nixon, LBJ, Kennedy....
every period was "our nation is at a crossroads" or "It's time to bring people together" or "this is the most important election in recent history" etc etc.

People just forget; that's all.
You are correct. There is no glorious past but it is easy to convince people, of any nationality , that there is. In the same way a politician will get crucified for telling us that we’ve never had it so good (which I pretty much proved in another thread) , people will list out current day problems in the belief this disproves the statement.
 

Watcher2

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Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
33,903
No it means something other than 62% of your tax being paid to the Military, while you look to remove basic healthcare from 21 million of your poorest citizens

Trump wants to give 62 cents of every dollar to the military. That's immoral | Reverend William Barber, Dr Liz Theoharis and Lindsay Koshgarian
The US is a kip. Its not a society, its merely an economy. Health care is a massively hot topic. The Obama Care was a hugely decisive issue because an American, in general and in particular, Republicans, hate the thought that ANYONE might "get something for free" irrespective of circumstances. And healthcare is HUGELY expensive. The average persons health insurance premium is $15-20K per annum. Only company plans can be afforded by employers. Only the top earners could afford their own but then, the top earners have their companies/employers provide them health care.

And as an example of the statement that its an economy and not a society, while there is the issue of few people in receipt of hesalth care/insurance, the Staten Island ferry shuffling workers from Staten Island to New York City and back, its free. And the median household income (2016) in Staten Island is over $70,000.

Staten Island, New York (NY) income map, earnings map, and wages data

So, the weak and vulnerable get pushed to the side but good wage earners receive free travel. In 2017, 23.9m people took the ferry:

Staten Island Ferry - Wikipedia

Check the Ridership paragraph. The ferry runs 24 hours a day and is quite frequent.

The place is a fvcking cesspool.
 

Jack Walsh

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Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
9,305
The US is a kip. Its not a society, its merely an economy. Health care is a massively hot topic. The Obama Care was a hugely decisive issue because an American, in general and in particular, Republicans, hate the thought that ANYONE might "get something for free" irrespective of circumstances. And healthcare is HUGELY expensive. The average persons health insurance premium is $15-20K per annum. Only company plans can be afforded by employers. Only the top earners could afford their own but then, the top earners have their companies/employers provide them health care.

And as an example of the statement that its an economy and not a society, while there is the issue of few people in receipt of hesalth care/insurance, the Staten Island ferry shuffling workers from Staten Island to New York City and back, its free. And the median household income (2016) in Staten Island is over $70,000.

Staten Island, New York (NY) income map, earnings map, and wages data

So, the weak and vulnerable get pushed to the side but good wage earners receive free travel. In 2017, 23.9m people took the ferry:

Staten Island Ferry - Wikipedia

Check the Ridership paragraph. The ferry runs 24 hours a day and is quite frequent.

The place is a fvcking cesspool.
Any country that doesn't as a normal human impulse recoil and resist this sort of scumbaggery is on a slippery slope to carnage.

Betsy DeVos Outraged That Her Own Budget Makes Her Look Like a Monster

Essentially privatising schools to enrich her billionaire pals while gutting all sorts of aid programmes including those for the disabled
It's like Nazism only less ethical and less planned.
The only plan being to further enrich rich people
 

NYCKY

Moderator
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Messages
13,101
The US is a kip. Its not a society, its merely an economy. Health care is a massively hot topic. The Obama Care was a hugely decisive issue because an American, in general and in particular, Republicans, hate the thought that ANYONE might "get something for free" irrespective of circumstances. And healthcare is HUGELY expensive. The average persons health insurance premium is $15-20K per annum. Only company plans can be afforded by employers. Only the top earners could afford their own but then, the top earners have their companies/employers provide them health care.

And as an example of the statement that its an economy and not a society, while there is the issue of few people in receipt of hesalth care/insurance, the Staten Island ferry shuffling workers from Staten Island to New York City and back, its free. And the median household income (2016) in Staten Island is over $70,000.

Staten Island, New York (NY) income map, earnings map, and wages data

So, the weak and vulnerable get pushed to the side but good wage earners receive free travel. In 2017, 23.9m people took the ferry:

Staten Island Ferry - Wikipedia

Check the Ridership paragraph. The ferry runs 24 hours a day and is quite frequent.

The place is a fvcking cesspool.

There is a lot wrong with this post. No idea how you are extrapolating a free ferry service to healthcare.

For some background, Staten Island is the least populous and most remote of the five boroughs that make up New York City. Staten Island is the only borough with no subway and the only one that is not connected to Manhattan by either a bridge and/or a tunnel. There is even two tunnels to New Jersey and a bridge but nothing to Manhattan, which is essentially the city centre.. The Verrazano bridge connects Staten Island to the borough of Brooklyn but it is the only borough not connected to Manhattan.

In 1993, there was a non binding referendum in Staten Island about the borough seceding from New York City to become an independent city. Staten Islanders had two main grievances, there was a 2,000 + acre dump, the freshkills landfill and the ferry fares. The borough had very limited transit options and were known as New York City's dump. They were very unhappy and voted overwhelmingly to secede. That same election also saw the narrow election of Rudy Guiliani as Mayor of NYC, thanks largely to the surge in Staten Island voting. Staten Island is typically a Republican district, though made up of blue collar workers, cops, firemen, sanitation etc, they voted narrowly for Obama in 2012 but decisively for Trump.

Giuliani listened to them, addressed the grieveances, closed the dump and eliminated the ferry fares. The subway in NYC was heavily subsidized and the city had moved to a one fare zone, eliminating the dual fare for bus and train, meaning one swipe of your card got you where you needed to go with a flat fare. That didn't do much for Staten Islanders but the ferry move did.

Of course, many of the workers need to a bus to get to the ferry, and once they get off, need to take a subway or bus to get to work. They don't get everything free. They don't have a total free pass.

The Staten Island ferry is also a huge tourist draw, it takes you quite close to the statue of liberty and gives breathtaking view of the lower Manhattan skyline, ideal for photos, selfies, etc for all sorts of social media.
 

Watcher2

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
33,903
There is a lot wrong with this post. No idea how you are extrapolating a free ferry service to healthcare.

For some background, Staten Island is the least populous and most remote of the five boroughs that make up New York City. Staten Island is the only borough with no subway and the only one that is not connected to Manhattan by either a bridge and/or a tunnel. There is even two tunnels to New Jersey and a bridge but nothing to Manhattan, which is essentially the city centre.. The Verrazano bridge connects Staten Island to the borough of Brooklyn but it is the only borough not connected to Manhattan.

In 1993, there was a non binding referendum in Staten Island about the borough seceding from New York City to become an independent city. Staten Islanders had two main grievances, there was a 2,000 + acre dump, the freshkills landfill and the ferry fares. The borough had very limited transit options and were known as New York City's dump. They were very unhappy and voted overwhelmingly to secede. That same election also saw the narrow election of Rudy Guiliani as Mayor of NYC, thanks largely to the surge in Staten Island voting. Staten Island is typically a Republican district, though made up of blue collar workers, cops, firemen, sanitation etc, they voted narrowly for Obama in 2012 but decisively for Trump.

Giuliani listened to them, addressed the grieveances, closed the dump and eliminated the ferry fares. The subway in NYC was heavily subsidized and the city had moved to a one fare zone, eliminating the dual fare for bus and train, meaning one swipe of your card got you where you needed to go with a flat fare. That didn't do much for Staten Islanders but the ferry move did.

Of course, many of the workers need to a bus to get to the ferry, and once they get off, need to take a subway or bus to get to work. They don't get everything free. They don't have a total free pass.

The Staten Island ferry is also a huge tourist draw, it takes you quite close to the statue of liberty and gives breathtaking view of the lower Manhattan skyline, ideal for photos, selfies, etc for all sorts of social media.
Thanks for the post, but I am very well aware of New York. But it still does not detract from the cesspool that is the US and how it is governed. Pity you don't understand the glaring obvious regarding the lack of services provided to disadvantaged and a free service provided to those earning a median wage of over $70,000 pa.
 

belcoo666

Active member
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
172
Any country that doesn't as a normal human impulse recoil and resist this sort of scumbaggery is on a slippery slope to carnage.

Betsy DeVos Outraged That Her Own Budget Makes Her Look Like a Monster

Essentially privatising schools to enrich her billionaire pals while gutting all sorts of aid programmes including those for the disabled
It's like Nazism only less ethical and less planned.
The only plan being to further enrich rich people
Its less ethical and less planned because these people don't have a German level of intelligence. Other than that its Nazism by another name with a similar agenda.
 

Herr Rommel

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2016
Messages
9,395
Any country that doesn't as a normal human impulse recoil and resist this sort of scumbaggery is on a slippery slope to carnage.

Betsy DeVos Outraged That Her Own Budget Makes Her Look Like a Monster

Essentially privatising schools to enrich her billionaire pals while gutting all sorts of aid programmes including those for the disabled
It's like Nazism only less ethical and less planned.
The only plan being to further enrich rich people
There is plenty of money there in private donations but thankfully POTUS has stepped in and sorted this with the minimum of fuss.
No mention that DeVos is a major private contributor to special needs athletes in America from you either.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
26,063
Twitter
No
100% write off against tax for philanthropic donations in the USA, is there not?
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
26,063
Twitter
No
Why is that privilege free in the USA? They seem to rail against basic healthcare instead of announcing its claim to civilisation by providing it.

The USA can certainly afford it, along with reform of the gouging practices of the corporations gathered around and feeding off the health 'market'.

Eisenhower was never regarded as the most intellectual of Presidents but his warning of the rise of the military industrial complex in the US as a great danger may prove to be one of the most prescient of US Presidential statements of the post-war era.
 
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